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Detention and Retail Theft - Now I'm F-ing Mad

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  • Detention and Retail Theft - Now I'm F-ing Mad

    Hey, folks. I just got back from meeting with Kenosha Police Department because myself and my girlfriend were detained in a McDonalds located in a convience store. The McDonalds is McDonalds Corporate Property, btw, not the store's property.

    While we were eating, the owner of the convience store and a rather large man came up to us. The seats are against a dividing wall, so we were blocked as they outstretched their hands and leaned in. I did not attempt to break free - I am unarmed and the gentleman blocking me in had a tactical advantage. Besides, thie guy could of been a cop - they don't have to identify up here when doing private security.

    The owner told my girlfriend that she had committed retail theft, and that they "have video of it." He then said that they couldn't see what she took, and asked her if she took anything. She stated no, and again they said, "We have video of you taking it." The man also stated that he had the police out for this, and this happened last week. So, they are detaining us both in another property for a criminal offense that was committed last week.

    The man then demanded that she go with him to watch the video, and we were seperated. I got her coat and things, and decided to wait to see what was going on. The second man was large, young, and reminded me of the New York vs. Skater Guard. The one who was all though and hard, the one who I would of probally had to physically engage if I went into the "store proper."

    After about five minutes without the police showing up, the young guy came up, told me that she stole the item, that they know she did it, and that I'm not allowed in his store. I asked him if the police were coming. He said "Get the **** out of my store," and then said, "Your not allowed anywhere near here, or the McDonalds either." He then raised his voice and stated that I'm not allowed near the McDonalds.

    So, after meeting with the police - I was unsure of the owner's "give me 10 bucks, oh I'll keep your 20, no reciept, now get out" was a criminal offense in Wisconsin , its civil... I'm going to have a talk with McDonalds Corporate about this whole "Your not allowed on McDonalds Property because I said so." The store's general manager had no idea what to say about this, and is unsure if this order stands. McDonalds has a seperate entrance, and the business is clearly marked as a separate business at all entrances.

    I have contacted McDonalds Corporate via email, and will be calling them tomorrow. My girlfriend has to figure out if she wants to file a civil claim against the store for unlawful detention, intimidation, mental anguish, and whatever else a lawyer comes up with.

    For me, I see this as yet another reason that people hate private security - even though this guy isn't a security guard. He acted like the most officious and full of himself lackey I've seen in awhile. New York tough guy accent, threatening gestures, and alot of shouting. Not only this guy had me afraid, if I had to fight him, who knows what the counter people keep behind the counter. I don't wear body armor off duty. I don't wear a firearm when out - I can't. So all I can do is bring a knife to a gunfight with an over-eager store clerk who's paid minimum wage.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

  • #2
    Corbier, check out WI Statutes, Chapter 942, which addresses Crimes against reputation and civil liberties. Also check out WI Statute 947.013, which addresses harassment. Then talk with Kenosha PD to see if they can or will charge the 300lb. burger-flipper with any applicable statute. If the PD will, secure a lawyer, take that minimum wage earning disgrace of humanity to the cleaners LMAO.
    Best of Luck!
    "If you run, you'll only go to jail tired."

    Comment


    • #3
      More information about the incident.

      Did you ask them if you or your girlfriend were under arrest when they insisted that she come with them to see the video? Did they ever say that you were not free to leave or were being detained?

      Since they reported the matter to the police a week before, did officers respond, and if so, did the police assign a case number or make any statements in the narrative for the call?

      Why didn't they try to detain your girlfriend when it allegedly happened?
      Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by wisconsinite
        Corbier, check out WI Statutes, Chapter 942, which addresses Crimes against reputation and civil liberties. Also check out WI Statute 947.013, which addresses harassment. Then talk with Kenosha PD to see if they can or will charge the 300lb. burger-flipper with any applicable statute. If the PD will, secure a lawyer, take that minimum wage earning disgrace of humanity to the cleaners LMAO.
        Best of Luck!
        I have a date with Kenosha Joint Services to pull up the entire Calls for Service for that address. (Here's a hint: Gas station, McDonalds, Downtown Kenosha, Sheridan Road.)

        I wish this guy was a burger flipper. The big guy worked for the convience store, appeared to be the owner's son.

        That's the big thing. They were OFF property, and this was NOT a breach of the peace.

        I talked with the KPD officer who responded about unlawful detention. He was visibly afraid to touch this issue, most likely because there's no video evidence to back this detention up.
        Some Kind of Commando Leader

        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mr. Security
          Did you ask them if you or your girlfriend were under arrest when they insisted that she come with them to see the video? Did they ever say that you were not free to leave or were being detained?

          Since they reported the matter to the police a week before, did officers respond, and if so, did the police assign a case number or make any statements in the narrative for the call?

          Why didn't they try to detain your girlfriend when it allegedly happened?
          They were doing the rapid speech thing. "You did this. Did you do this? We know you did this. Your going to come with me to see the video, right?" It took about 45 seconds for this to occur.

          They did not state that we were being detained, they physically surrounded us while seated, blocking our ability to leave, and refused to move when I pushed my chair back. At that time, I was at a tactical disadvantage, and I feared "making a point to get up," as if he knocked me down, it's on, and I don't want my girlfriend hurt.

          I have to find out if these folks ever called KPD. The police officer responding believes they did not.

          There is no indication that they ever attempted to detain her as she exited, I was with her during this alleged theft. I am the type of person who is hyper-alert to people who look out of place, so I was aware that we were being observed during our stop in there. However, I've also noticed that the owners observe just about everyone. There was no indication that they wanted to make a stop. The big guy was the type of guy who'd do a running tackle of my girlfriend without announcing, which means it would of not been pretty.

          She believes that this was some sort of extortion, or that they're "Getting even for her theft since we can't charge her." I believe this to be some type of type of stupidity - I'm unsure if its criminal stupidity.

          She's looking into a lawyer for a civil suit. I don't blame her.
          Some Kind of Commando Leader

          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mr. Security
            Did you ask them if you or your girlfriend were under arrest when they insisted that she come with them to see the video? Did they ever say that you were not free to leave or were being detained?

            Since they reported the matter to the police a week before, did officers respond, and if so, did the police assign a case number or make any statements in the narrative for the call?

            Why didn't they try to detain your girlfriend when it allegedly happened?
            N.A., you have a right to have tight jaws. As Mr. Security intimates, they kept you from leaving, denying you freedom of movement which equates to an arrest. I really feel sorry for your girlfriend.
            Something just came to me! Could this have to do with your employment, instant or in the past, any previous arrests of persons who might be related to the unfriendly giant?
            I'd love to know how this comes out.
            Enjoy the day and if possible, gut them like a fish!
            Bill

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, if no Statute would apply, and KPD is unwilling to do anything without video evidence, (which is unlikely to exist), what's left to do? Roll over and play dead? NOT me! One way or another, someone needs to feel the wrath. It's a matter of pride and principle now.
              "If you run, you'll only go to jail tired."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by wisconsinite
                Well, if no Statute would apply, and KPD is unwilling to do anything without video evidence, (which is unlikely to exist), what's left to do? Roll over and play dead? NOT me! One way or another, someone needs to feel the wrath. It's a matter of pride and principle now.
                Civil. Loss of Profit.

                Bill: Unforunately, nobody around here knows I carry a badge, or who I am. There are people on a local (popular) forum who know my name, but it was never given out in this instance. Identifying me is a bit hard, as I take steps to ensure that you can't just "look me up."

                Disclaimer: Yes, I know I'm in Dunn and Bradstreet, and that googling my name gives more than 1,000 hits. But, anyone coming to our apartment for the purposes of stupidity will not be leaving in the same method of arrival.

                This idiot wasn't focused on me. This guy was focused on my girlfriend, both of them. I was, for all intents and purposes, the guy who's always with her.

                That's what made this so unreal. If it were me accused, it would of ended with someone going to jail. But, it was her. Who was scared to death of the men yelling at her, and worse, the police coming and yelling at her, as well.
                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                  .....
                  They did not state that we were being detained, they physically surrounded us while seated, blocking our ability to leave, and refused to move when I pushed my chair back. At that time, I was at a tactical disadvantage, and I feared "making a point to get up," as if he knocked me down, it's on, and I don't want my girlfriend hurt.

                  I have to find out if these folks ever called KPD. The police officer responding believes they did not....
                  These people are pushing it. If they had actual video of your girlfriend shoplifting, the proper procedure is to call the police and if the police investigation revealed a crime, (I'm not saying that she did anything) they would submit a warrant to a judge for your girlfriend's arrest. They have no authority to make an arrest one week after the fact. Blocking you in is illegal, but probably will end-up being a he said-she said situation w/o CCTV or witnesses.

                  After you get any information from the police, consulting with an attorney can't hurt. I'd love to be a bug on the wall while her attorney takes a deposition from these two "gentlemen."
                  Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                    Civil. This idiot wasn't focused on me. This guy was focused on my girlfriend, both of them.
                    NA,
                    You are a better man than me because I would have taken a bloody nose or something. Unless it is a L/E I will never let my girlfriend go with someone that approaches her in that matter even if they are LP.
                    Good luck with the lawyer

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by hemi444
                      NA,
                      You are a better man than me because I would have taken a bloody nose or something. Unless it is a L/E I will never let my girlfriend go with someone that approaches her in that matter even if they are LP.
                      Good luck with the lawyer
                      Thanks. I had a fear less of a bloody nose and more they trying to "prevent her from escaping," or worse, if I did win, what the girls behind the counter have. I'm not bullet proof. And for all the fancy lighting they have, it reminds me alot of an inner-city store.

                      27.00 for antifreeze. No kidding. That should explain it all right there.
                      Some Kind of Commando Leader

                      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        That whole story makes me quaking mad. What if that was me and my family? Could that happen to just anybody? I hope you see this through to the end and get justice out of it.
                        "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 1stWatch
                          That whole story makes me quaking mad. What if that was me and my family? Could that happen to just anybody? I hope you see this through to the end and get justice out of it.
                          Talked to McDonalds Regional Management. The store is a satellite, which means that Lou's word is law there. Lou is the owner of the convience store. The regional manager offered his appologies, and noted that "Lou is Lou."

                          Several people on a local forum noted that since she gave them money, there is an implied admission of guilt. My counter to that was this:

                          Your in a room, alone, with two larger men who are telling you that you committed a criminal offense, and they want money for it. The door is closed. You are alone. What would you do?

                          I stupidly waited for the police, because I was still thinking this was reality, and not some bizzare episode of Must See TV. I was hoping that they'd arrive soon. They were never called, until we called them.
                          Some Kind of Commando Leader

                          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 1stWatch
                            That whole story makes me quaking mad. What if that was me and my family? Could that happen to just anybody? I hope you see this through to the end and get justice out of it.
                            When you get off duty and arrive home to see your pregnant wife shaking and in tears over a telephone call she has received concerning what you did to that person's husband. You have three children and one on the way. That is when you develope an irrational fear that they are vulnerable. The people strike out at your loved ones because they can't strike at you.
                            I informed my Chief and was assured the family would be safe and keep doing your job to the best of your ability.
                            The lady making the phone call was charged with communicating a threat and intimidation. Her husband went to prison and she made a plea deal because of the children.
                            It can and does happen.
                            We have Federal Judges, Deputy US Marshals, FBI, ATF and ICE agents under federal protection as a result of doing their jobs, and folks it's only going to get worse. God alone knows just how many state and local security and law enforcement folks are in the same boat.
                            N.A, don't hesitate to get a court ordered trap and trace put on your phone should the occasion arise.
                            Enjoy the day,
                            Bill

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sounds like you have a decision to make. Weather to pursue this civilly or see if you can get it investigated government wise. Maybe even both. Being made to comply under duress is a violation of due process and one?s civil rights under any circumstances I think. Regardless or weather any party is innocent or not. I do not know the laws that well were you are.

                              My brother?s lady friend was falsely accused some years back of an in house problem. After the authorities investigated it and a few law suits were pending the retailer fessed up to being over reactive and wanted to make an example based on little or no facts to support the issues.

                              You were correct to cooperate under the circumstances. Granted one would like to have kicked some ass and let the cops show up to sort it out. But you had no idea what kind of resistance in the form of possible weapons or man power you would have faced. And you were in fear of injury for her. Of course taking any kind of action will require the cooperation of your lady friend. Just make sure she knows what is in store for both of you if you decide to take action. You have my support and prayers.
                              My views, opinions and statements are my own. They are not of my company, affiliates or coworkers.

                              -Being bagger at Publix has more respect these days

                              -It's just a job kid deal with it

                              -The industry needs to do one of two things; stop fiddling with the thin line and go forward or go back to that way it was. A flashlight in one hand and your set of keys in the other

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