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  • #61
    Originally posted by Aussie Officer View Post
    Could you, in good conscious watch someone do something wrong and not act or report it?? Would you be able to sleep that night knowing you let it slide?

    Or look at it another way. They might get away with it this time, next time. But one thing for sure. THEY KNOW WE ARE WATCHING. So do you think they will try and escalate their offences???? Or the people who are borderline then hear that security caught so and so doing this wrong. Do you think they will try something now????
    There is a very strong cultural difference between security operations in Commonwealth Countries and the United States. I have spoken with police officers in the UK, who will be the first to say "Security guards in England have no authority." But, when you ask them, "What are they supposed to do if someone is breaking into the place they protect," they'll say, "Well, they're the watchman, they nick the guy for us and call 999."

    In the US? Depending on the company you work for, you are to:
    1) Arrest the violator for burglary yourself, after reporting the situation to your superior for officer safety purposes.

    or

    2) Covertly observe the burglary, quietly calling 911 to report the burglary. You are not to make your presence known at any time, nor are you to confront the burglar.

    or

    3) Be helpful, asking the gentleman what he's doing and if you can be any help upon detection. Inform your supervisor of the situation when possible, and make a log notation. If your visible deterrence function fails, you should leave the area and summon your supervisor for assistance.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Aussie Officer View Post
      Could you, in good conscious watch someone do something wrong and not act or report it?? Would you be able to sleep that night knowing you let it slide?

      Or look at it another way. They might get away with it this time, next time. But one thing for sure. THEY KNOW WE ARE WATCHING. So do you think they will try and escalate their offences???? Or the people who are borderline then hear that security caught so and so doing this wrong. Do you think they will try something now????
      Conscience is a funny thing. To some people "wrong" is limited to harming helpless people and doesn't cover harming those perceived to be powerful or wealthy. To others "wrong" covers everything from smoking a cigarette too close to an access way to an employee wearing an id badge on the right side of their shirt to the left side of their shirt.

      Where we are concerned, we come down hard on anyone that is intentionally harming our customer, less hard on anyone who is unintentionally harming our customer. But either way we come down.
      formerly C&A

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      • #63
        Americans really don't understand anything about security. We and traditional law enforcemenet are in the crime business. We are proactive the Police are reactive. Americans have not learned anything from 911. Those who respond to crime are heros and those who prevent crime are just "security" It's all about perception.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by cocknaces View Post
          Conscience is a funny thing. To some people "wrong" is limited to harming helpless people and doesn't cover harming those perceived to be powerful or wealthy. To others "wrong" covers everything from smoking a cigarette too close to an access way to an employee wearing an id badge on the right side of their shirt to the left side of their shirt.

          Where we are concerned, we come down hard on anyone that is intentionally harming our customer, less hard on anyone who is unintentionally harming our customer. But either way we come down.
          Exactly, coming down either way. Not, not doing anything because it is unlikely that management will act on the offence. That was my point.
          You are not defeated unless you believe you are -Fernando
          The world is full of willing people; some willing to work and the rest willing to let them - Robert Frost

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          • #65
            When I was a younger guy I thought that if I took a Dale Carnegie business course at a nearby college then when I finished I would be able to pee further then most others in the business world. Like most courses there were a few things that stuck in your head like a peanut setting on your stomach ulcer. You just never forget the cause and effect.

            One was how to disarm an extremely angry customer. Most people can tell from a number of facial and body language points what someone has on their mind as they approach you. In a nut shell it is a simple smile. Not a wise ass smirk or a better then tho smile but a sincere I like you I'm here to listen and work with you friendly smile. I know it sounds to easy but think over your life span when you were BS at someone that practices this and think how quick your anger melted away. The Asian culture has been using this process for many thousands of years and have had great success. I have used it occasionally in security with positive results. Although in some cases nothing will but force will work.
            THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
            THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
            http://www.boondocksaints.com/

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            • #66
              Yeah I have noticed that there are three types of people you deal with. First person is very nice and appreciates everything you do, they even send a thank you card after you jump start their vehicle etc... The next person just ignores you and everything you stand for, they are not against you but not for you either. Then the third person who goes out of his way to make your shift hell, this person does not believe you have authority or even the right to ask him nicely not to park in the handicapped spot. Thankfully though we have a phone to call the cops with for the 3rd type. They really don't like the 200 dollar fine from the cops either (while from me it would be 50 ).
              -Protect and Serve-

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              • #67
                Originally posted by jbaerbock View Post
                Then the third person who goes out of his way to make your shift hell, this person does not believe you have authority or even the right to ask him nicely not to park in the handicapped spot. Thankfully though we have a phone to call the cops with for the 3rd type. They really don't like the 200 dollar fine from the cops either (while from me it would be 50 ).
                I know exactly what you mean. There is this one store manager where I work who absolutely hates security (actually, I later found out that she really hates men, but that's another discussion.) She thinks she can get away with parking her $60,000 SUV in the "No Parking Zone" because it's directly in front of her store and I always have to go in there to tell her to move it. She always complies, but has a real bad attitude about it. Whenever she sees me in the parking lot now, she will speed up really fast and drive like a maniac just to show me that I am not a police officer and cannot do anything about it. I absolutely cannot stand this type of behaviour because I have no problem with her as a person, only the fact that she illegally parks her car every damn day and I could get in trouble for not having her move it. I wish she would see that I am simply trying to do my job and not trying to be an a$$.
                111th PAPD Class
                Bravo Platoon 4th Squad

                Comment


                • #68
                  Honestly, behavior like that should be reported, in writing, to the client. If the client manager demands you stop, they need to put it in writing. You should also contact your employer about the problem.

                  Her assing around may result in an accident, which causes loss to the client. Who, btw, is not the idiot woman, it is the company hiring the security firm.
                  Some Kind of Commando Leader

                  "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Security View Post
                    I know exactly what you mean. There is this one store manager where I work who absolutely hates security (actually, I later found out that she really hates men, but that's another discussion.) She thinks she can get away with parking her $60,000 SUV in the "No Parking Zone" because it's directly in front of her store and I always have to go in there to tell her to move it. She always complies, but has a real bad attitude about it. Whenever she sees me in the parking lot now, she will speed up really fast and drive like a maniac just to show me that I am not a police officer and cannot do anything about it. I absolutely cannot stand this type of behaviour because I have no problem with her as a person, only the fact that she illegally parks her car every damn day and I could get in trouble for not having her move it. I wish she would see that I am simply trying to do my job and not trying to be an a$$.

                    Consider catching some video of this dangerous driving behavior and/or arranging for it to be seen personally by appropriate management personnel. This is a tragedy waiting to happen, especially in parking lots where pedestrians and close quarters make accidents even more likely.

                    However, I'm not quite sure I understand why you "can't do anything about it" unless you are working under inadequate policies and procedures that do not properly address driving behaviors. Presumably, the parking lot itself is within your purview, or else why are you telling her to move her car in the first place? These do not need to be "police issues" if the lot is private (or even privately-owned quasipublic space as most parking lots are); management (and hence, security) would be perfectly within its scope to address this sort of thing absent some unusual laws in your neck of the woods. In most parts of the country, the police are not eager to "police" parking lots except on an occasional "drive-through" basis.

                    Police will usually quite happily relinquish parking lot issues to the security forces. In more and more places, for instance, they won't even take accident reports unless an injury is involved, and will only respond to major crimes or events presenting significant risk to public safety, like an active shooter, or some other incident where they believe the press is likely to show up - er, I mean where the public welfare is involved in a significant way.

                    Otherwise, a victim of "lesser crimes" can just toddle down to the station himself (or hook up online) to file his report about a vehicle break-in or damage, purse-snatch, pickpocketing, etc. if it happens in a parking lot instead of on the street. A bored desk officer will hand them a coffee-stained blank report, give them a case number, and then the report will be lost before they get back home. If the victim thinks that checking the dumpster at the shopping center for his stuff might be useful, he'd better grab his rubber gloves and do it himself. No CSI team will converge on the scene, that's for sure, unless what was stolen from your car was a couple of pounds of nuclear weapons grade material.

                    Some towns, the only time you see cops in parking lots writing tickets is when they light someone up out on the street and the driver pulls off the roadway into a parking lot. For those brief moments, you have at least the appearance of "police enforcement" in the parking lot. Otherwise, it's a "drive-through", the officer has business there (e.g., dropping off cleaning, barbershop, a meal break), he's hooking up with another unit to chat, or he's sitting catching up on his paper work. None of this, of course, provides "enforcement" for the lot.

                    To be perfectly fair, most departments simply don't have the time or manpower to worry very much about parking lots and they do figure that malls, etc. have security, so...

                    Quasi-public spaces like parking lots are funny places in terms of authority, though, involving both statutory law and police department policies. Corporate counsel can advise you on the law, and a meeting with police authorities will inform you of departmental policies regarding "police enforcement" in parking lots.

                    In any case, it sounds to me like management needs to get a handle on this parking lot, both with respect to parking policies and unsafe driving, and that usually means establishing the authority to issue tickets to violators - WITH the accompanying fines and other penalties, such as being banned from the lot for a period of time. If there is a "police vacuum" in terms of enforcement, management needs to realize that they MUST fill the vacuum or face enormous liabilities that can easily bankrupt them in the blink of an eye when this insane woman (or someone like her) runs down a mother pushing a baby carriage out from between two parked cars. Oh, and management needs to know that business liability insurance won't feed this bulldog, either. The liability of which I speak is nontransferrable, especially if management cannot show mitigation.
                    Last edited by SecTrainer; 12-23-2007, 12:02 PM.
                    "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                    "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                    "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                    "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      SecTrainer, when I say that she tries to show me there is nothing I can do about it, I meant that she sees security as a joke and will mock us by driving at dangerous speeds because she knows I don't have the authority to pull her over and issue her a citation for wreckless driving. All I am able to do is place parking violation tickets on people's cars, but it's basically just a warning because we don't actually fine people or have a towing provider in place, and she knows it. So this is how she gets back at me for making her move her SUV... by showing me that I'm not a cop, basically.

                      I usually try to cut everyone a break, especially if they are an employee and it is their first offense. But, man, I hope to see this one pay hard - I really do!
                      111th PAPD Class
                      Bravo Platoon 4th Squad

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Security View Post
                        SecTrainer, when I say that she tries to show me there is nothing I can do about it, I meant that she sees security as a joke and will mock us by driving at dangerous speeds because she knows I don't have the authority to pull her over and issue her a citation for wreckless driving. All I am able to do is place parking violation tickets on people's cars, but it's basically just a warning because we don't actually fine people or have a towing provider in place, and she knows it. So this is how she gets back at me for making her move her SUV... by showing me that I'm not a cop, basically.

                        I usually try to cut everyone a break, especially if they are an employee and it is their first offense. But, man, I hope to see this one pay hard - I really do!
                        Unfortunately, being that she's in an SUV and she'll likely mow down a pedestrian or crash into some little old man backing out in his Dodge Dart, it will be someone else who "pays hard", probably. Them, and the shopping center owners, of course. She will be unhurt and will probably only take a hit in her insurance premium, if that.

                        Deranged driving in a parking lot is just as nuts and as dangerous as it sounds. I would make it a special point to document this behavior on video (your cell phone, perhaps?) and bring this to management as a matter of urgent concern before tragedy strikes.
                        Last edited by SecTrainer; 12-23-2007, 12:22 PM.
                        "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                        "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                        "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                        "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
                          Unfortunately, being that she's in an SUV and she'll likely mow down a pedestrian or crash into some little old man backing out in his Dodge Dart, it will be someone else who "pays hard", probably. Them, and the shopping center owners, of course. She will be unhurt and will probably only take a hit in her insurance premium, if that.

                          Deranged driving in a parking lot is just as nuts and as dangerous as it sounds. I would make it a special point to document this behavior on video (your cell phone, perhaps?) and bring this to management as a matter of urgent concern before tragedy strikes.
                          SecTrainer, I'd go one step further. If I really knew local LEOs, I would report what I observed and ask one of them to be present at the same time she performs her daily stunt. Again this might unravel not knowing the jurisdiction where the mall is located; however, in most locations local LEOs investigate accidents on mall properties, issue citations or make arrests and so forth. For me, I'd love to see her rolled up!
                          Enjoy the day,
                          Bill

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Bill Warnock View Post
                            SecTrainer, I'd go one step further. If I really knew local LEOs, I would report what I observed and ask one of them to be present at the same time she performs her daily stunt. Again this might unravel not knowing the jurisdiction where the mall is located; however, in most locations local LEOs investigate accidents on mall properties, issue citations or make arrests and so forth. For me, I'd love to see her rolled up!
                            Enjoy the day,
                            Bill
                            I agree Mr. Warnock! Maybe that can be placed on You Tube for all to see ( and laugh).

                            Be Safe,

                            Hank
                            " We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on one hand and of overwhelming force on the other" - General George C. Marshall

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Security, what SecTrainer may of tried to say was:

                              You do not work for her. You work for your company, who is contracted by her employer to provide security services to that property. This means that when she does stupid things like that, showing her ass, she is just another safety violator. Unlike most violators, you know the substantial risk to the safety of the patrons name.

                              I would first ask my company what I'm supposed to do, telling them that she's a danger to the people they're paid to protect. Then I'd report it to the District Loss Prevention Manager for that store. Its his job to reduce loss, which is why they hired your employer. And she is loss waiting to happen.
                              Some Kind of Commando Leader

                              "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Just by saying the word NO or stopping someone from doing what they wish to do against policy is grounds for no Xmas Card from them. I have stopped employees roaring through a carpark by blocking their exit with a patrol car and having a word to them. Everything was recorded on CCTV with the idiot driver getting out and waving her hands around and when I made the incident report I was invited into the interview (not bad for a bloke who visited the site rarely as a relief manager).

                                There is going to be a major injury and I hope that it is not a fatality on either party's side but then again - some people think the sun shines out of their buttocks every morning.
                                "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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