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  • #31
    I honestly don't remember experiencing much "hate" as a private security officer.

    I'm the real easy going type and I rate myself a pretty good communicator (and am blessed with the natural command presence you get from being a fairly big/tall guy ) so I had very few problems.
    One time this dope head we dealt with when I worked on a Federal (HUD) contract said "I just don't get along with you guys because y'all work with the popo" but other than a handful of such incidents I haven't had much hate shot my way in private security.

    Now, when I worked as a Detention Officer, that was a bit differant, the inmates of course didn't like us lol, but I expected that. I experianced about the same level when I worked as a reserve and the part time police officer for a small town, kind of a mix of admiration and distrust.

    But hands down, I've experienced more hate and been subject to more actual ridicule as a Campus Police Officer than I was as a private security officer, jail guard of small town cop, be a BIG margin. Lots of identifiable factors in this one:

    -Young people: The college kids, adults for the 1st time in their lives, REALLY don't like being told what to do. Many of them are "jailhouse lawyer" types who will scream "I know my rights" and be wrong about those rights every time lol.

    (Quick example, I've arrested college kids that have protested "but your arrest isn't legal because you didn't read me my rights" lol. Some have even smirked at us because of it. I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall in whatever room they are in and see their smug expressions disappear when their lawyer explains to them that we didn't need to read them any rights because we didn't question them about something they would be criminally liable for while in custody lol. I've probably mirandized 10 people in 10 years lol).

    -Very liberal academic environment

    -Being downtown (our campus cops uptown or out in the country don't get as much guff as we do, I've worked some of those campuses)

    And

    -Having to deal with Dallas PD. Most of my "you're not a real cop" experiences have come from Dallas PD. One city guy (still in Field Training) even asked us "are you guys really peace officers?" (something every cop should know from the academy).

    I was having a bad day so I replied (paraphrasing, can't type what I really said lol) "NO we're not really peace officers, we just like walking around downtown carrying guns with the word police plastered all over our uniforms because we are REALLY curious about the taste of prison food, and well all spent the same amount of time in the police academy that YOU did being taught by instructors from YOUR department and others because we were bored.......".

    To his credit he Actually laughed it off and he's been a friend ever sense, even sticks up for us with some of his less friendly co-workers. But his 1st question was typical of Dallas PD. None of the other traditional LE agencies (city county or otherwise) around us act like that.

    But I don't take it personal, I had a State Trooper once tell my Dallas PD looks down on them too lol.

    --
    Ect Ect, I guess everyone's experience is different, but I never got much guff in private security, not like I get now at least.
    Last edited by Black Caesar; 12-17-2007, 11:36 AM.
    ~Black Caesar~
    Corbier's Commandos

    " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Black Caesar View Post
      I'm the real easy going type and I rate myself a pretty good communicator (and am blessed with the natural command presence you get from being a fairly big/tall guy ) so I had very few problems.
      Warning to (taller) security newbies: BC's comment should not be misunderstood. Height does not reliably translate into command presence, so if you are a tall person coming into the field of security, you MUST NOT presume that you have any advantage over a shorter person or that you will have any easier time with difficult subjects of any height than a shorter officer will have. Having read BC's posts for quite some time, I have no doubt that he does enjoy what is known as "command presence", but this is derived from the entire constellation of his professional and personal attributes (mental, emotional and physical).

      For instance, BC is obviously very highly trained in his profession. He brings a natural sense of humor to his work, and seems to have good command of his own emotions. I would also be very surprised to find him wearing scuffed shoes or an unkempt uniform. I'd be willing to bet that you could check his sidearm any time and find it to be clean and serviceable. I'm sure he spends time on the range. His command of the English language is excellent, and he seems to understand human nature very well. He values his relationships with other segments of the protective community - both public and private - very highly. In short, I am sure he presents an image of both confidence AND competence.

      All of these things and more are what are required in order for an officer to establish the command presence that BC enjoys.

      As a police administrator, I had many occasions to observe that no single attribute was any predictor of an officer's success in dealing with difficult subjects or the public in general. In my command we had officers of every height (from 5'8", which was the departmental minimum at the time, to 6'3".). We had shorter officers who could bring the most obnoxious drunk into the station without the least difficulty, and we had taller officers who got into fights at least once a week - sometimes with the very same subjects that gave the shorter officers no trouble. The difference was in their communication style, mostly - not their height. We did have a couple of shorter officers who could physically stomp much larger subjects with astonishing ease, though. Both of them had blazing speed (element of surprise), knew how to concentrate their force (effective) and didn't really give a sh1t how big their opponent was (fearless) - a combination that makes mere size totally worthless, if not a disadvantage. Being of average height myself, and at the time not yet having studied Krav Maga, I was no samurai but I would have preferred to fight with some of my taller officers than either of these two shorter guys.

      A book that I highly recommend on this subject is "Verbal Judo: The Gentle Art of Persuasion"...which is not just about "how to talk to people" as the title might imply. It is, in fact about establishing command presence and, of course, how your communication style plays a critical role.

      Note that this book was written by a police officer who was 6'2" and 210 lb, and who discovered, somewhat to his surprise, that his size was not the asset he had thought it would be and his badge-and-gun didn't help much either. Many of his early interactions with people ended up in fights until he learned what "command presence" is all about. Read the book, and you won't make the same mistake. There are tall officers who are totally lacking in command presence, and shorter officers who simply exude command presence when they walk into a room or approach a vehicle. Tall, short or average, you need the entire package that an officer like BC brings to the table in order to establish command presence.
      Last edited by SecTrainer; 12-17-2007, 01:05 PM.
      "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

      "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

      "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

      "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by echo06 View Post
        Hell, I know officers that hate other officers, won't speak to them, wave, smile, back them up......you name it. I have dealt with this first hand when dealing with other departments or passing thetm on the street, etc.

        You would think that with all the "hating security" that goes on that the officers would at least stick together.

        Maybe we should look in our own backyards first.
        That's what we're looking at with a couple of LP's, especially our TL. When you show favoritism to yourself and your attitude stinks...I don't know what they expect to happen.
        "Life In Every Breath"

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        • #34
          Thanks!

          Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
          A book that I highly recommend on this subject is "Verbal Judo: The Gentle Art of Persuasion"...which is not just about "how to talk to people" as the title might imply. It is, in fact about establishing command presence and, of course, how your communication style plays a critical role.

          Note that this book was written by a police officer who was 6'2" and 210 lb, and who discovered, somewhat to his surprise, that his size was not the asset he had thought it would be and his badge-and-gun didn't help much either. Many of his early interactions with people ended up in fights until he learned what "command presence" is all about. Read the book, and you won't make the same mistake.
          Thanks, SecTrainer! I just ordered the book from Amazon.

          Erik
          111th PAPD Class
          Bravo Platoon 4th Squad

          Comment


          • #35
            I may have said this elsewhere. When I'm training new officers, I always let them know 1) Don't take people personally. You're here to do a job, not to make friends. 2) Be friendly without being their friend. There is a BIG difference. 3) And most importantly, if you don't ocassionally piss someone off, you are not doing your job correctly.
            That's a direct quote. Not word for word, but the gist of it.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
              Warning to (taller) security newbies: BC's comment should not be misunderstood. Height does not reliably translate into command presence, so if you are a tall person coming into the field of security, you MUST NOT presume that you have any advantage over a shorter person or that you will have any easier time with difficult subjects of any height than a shorter officer will have. Having read BC's posts for quite some time, I have no doubt that he does enjoy what is known as "command presence", but this is derived from the entire constellation of his professional and personal attributes (mental, emotional and physical).

              For instance, BC is obviously very highly trained in his profession. He brings a natural sense of humor to his work, and seems to have good command of his own emotions. I would also be very surprised to find him wearing scuffed shoes or an unkempt uniform. I'd be willing to bet that you could check his sidearm any time and find it to be clean and serviceable. I'm sure he spends time on the range. His command of the English language is excellent, and he seems to understand human nature very well. He values his relationships with other segments of the protective community - both public and private - very highly. In short, I am sure he presents an image of both confidence AND competence.

              All of these things and more are what are required in order for an officer to establish the command presence that BC enjoys.

              As a police administrator, I had many occasions to observe that no single attribute was any predictor of an officer's success in dealing with difficult subjects or the public in general. In my command we had officers of every height (from 5'8", which was the departmental minimum at the time, to 6'3".). We had shorter officers who could bring the most obnoxious drunk into the station without the least difficulty, and we had taller officers who got into fights at least once a week - sometimes with the very same subjects that gave the shorter officers no trouble. The difference was in their communication style, mostly - not their height. We did have a couple of shorter officers who could physically stomp much larger subjects with astonishing ease, though. Both of them had blazing speed (element of surprise), knew how to concentrate their force (effective) and didn't really give a sh1t how big their opponent was (fearless) - a combination that makes mere size totally worthless, if not a disadvantage. Being of average height myself, and at the time not yet having studied Krav Maga, I was no samurai but I would have preferred to fight with some of my taller officers than either of these two shorter guys.

              A book that I highly recommend on this subject is "Verbal Judo: The Gentle Art of Persuasion"...which is not just about "how to talk to people" as the title might imply. It is, in fact about establishing command presence and, of course, how your communication style plays a critical role.

              Note that this book was written by a police officer who was 6'2" and 210 lb, and who discovered, somewhat to his surprise, that his size was not the asset he had thought it would be and his badge-and-gun didn't help much either. Many of his early interactions with people ended up in fights until he learned what "command presence" is all about. Read the book, and you won't make the same mistake. There are tall officers who are totally lacking in command presence, and shorter officers who simply exude command presence when they walk into a room or approach a vehicle. Tall, short or average, you need the entire package that an officer like BC brings to the table in order to establish command presence.
              You know what's an off the wall solution that I think actually would help people with this?

              An Acting Class. I'm serious. One of my college's Instructors (who also helps his wife manage the College Theater) was once a Deputy Sheriff in New Mexico. He once told me something to the effect that "everyone who has to deal with irrate people should have to take a Drama class".

              It actually makes sense, actors are taught to focus their emotions, how to respond to their "audience" in order to win them over, how to give the "audience" what they want ect ect. I audited one of the theater arts classes and I really think it helps.

              For instance, one thing that was taught was how to "keep your audience off balance" but doing the OPPOSITE of what they expect. I'm a big guy in a uniform, so we I come off as a used car salesman who is REALLY interested in their personal life and problems (rather than the Ogreish fascist brute they expect because of my size and uniform), that throws them off balance.

              Another trick of the trade is the "snapback", when you feel you are losing the audience even slightly, do something small but over the top. My usual thing is a quick raise of my voice and a stern look (having made them comfortable with me this quick "blast" of stereotypical cop meanness puts them of balance again), making them wonder if their initial take (big ogreish brute" was right the 1st time.

              By the time they regain their balance, the business is done and I've moved on to the next call for service lol.
              ~Black Caesar~
              Corbier's Commandos

              " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

              Comment


              • #37
                IMHO, I've noticed in my environment, patrons who are glad to see one, if not many uniformed Officers during the course of a shift, particularly on weekinds... I personally don't give a rat's 4th point of contact or another if someone hates me or not... I am being paid indirectly by the client to provide visual deterrence, observe and report instances to the local PD that are beyond my authority, to question suspected shopliftlers/thieves only in the presence of a store employee who has reasonable doubt that a particular person may have stolen something...

                Meaning, if a store employee calls me asking for a "walk thru", fine... If that same associate wants to imply that someone stole something, they should call me and do so while the suspects are still in the merchants store; Once they leave and are in the public/common area of the mall, I've no authority to single these people out for questioning without a store representative that can positively ID them as a possible shoplifter...

                But, I digress...

                IMHO, yes, certain people in general, I.E. those with intent to steal, do resent us, because we represent a force that is in place to prevent and/or deter them from doing so; the only "bad attitudes" I've witnessed towards Security Officers are from those with ill intentions anyway, and teenage kids who are respective only to you until they pass you in the common area, especially in groups...

                gotta keep up appearances in front of your Homeys, ya know...
                Last edited by flashlightcop509; 12-17-2007, 05:51 PM.
                “Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left”
                "I swear to God, I'm going to pistol whip the next guy that says 'Shenanigans' "... Capt. O'Hagan, "Super Troopers"

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Black Caesar View Post
                  You know what's an off the wall solution that I think actually would help people with this?

                  An Acting Class. I'm serious. One of my college's Instructors (who also helps his wife manage the College Theater) was once a Deputy Sheriff in New Mexico. He once told me something to the effect that "everyone who has to deal with irrate people should have to take a Drama class".

                  It actually makes sense, actors are taught to focus their emotions, how to respond to their "audience" in order to win them over, how to give the "audience" what they want ect ect. I audited one of the theater arts classes and I really think it helps.

                  For instance, one thing that was taught was how to "keep your audience off balance" but doing the OPPOSITE of what they expect. I'm a big guy in a uniform, so we I come off as a used car salesman who is REALLY interested in their personal life and problems (rather than the Ogreish fascist brute they expect because of my size and uniform), that throws them off balance.

                  Another trick of the trade is the "snapback", when you feel you are losing the audience even slightly, do something small but over the top. My usual thing is a quick raise of my voice and a stern look (having made them comfortable with me this quick "blast" of stereotypical cop meanness puts them of balance again), making them wonder if their initial take (big ogreish brute" was right the 1st time.

                  By the time they regain their balance, the business is done and I've moved on to the next call for service lol.
                  I agree, absolutely. And maybe one in stand-up comedy, too! It's sort of like the way taking ballet or other forms of dance can help football players. Seems counterintuitive, but it isn't.

                  Every officer plays many different "roles" during a typical tour. He has to "be" what the situation demands.
                  "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                  "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                  "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                  "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
                    I agree, absolutely. And maybe one in stand-up comedy, too! It's sort of like the way taking ballet or other forms of dance can help football players. Seems counterintuitive, but it isn't.

                    Every officer plays many different "roles" during a typical tour. He has to "be" what the situation demands.
                    I second that Sec. I can go from being a "big brother" by helping a child with a free throw shot on a basketball court, to be a sounding board and lending a ear for a battered female. So I agree with your observation completely.

                    Be Safe,

                    Hank
                    " We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on one hand and of overwhelming force on the other" - General George C. Marshall

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Can't remember ever getting any hate. People seem aggravated when what we do causes them some inconvenience, but I never got the hate.

                      Maybe this- like so much else- depends on the kind of security you do.
                      My experience in corporate security is that at worst, people fear you. Employees know they can be fired if they ignore you and trespassers know they could be beaten/shot, or arrested and sent to jail. Both try to avoid us if at all possible, and when they have to deal with us they tend to lie, exaggerate, etc.

                      The only thing that really bothers me is when employees ignore us or act totally surprised/offended when directed to do something that is absolutely routine, that they do every single day. Like a car that blows a checkpoint, is intercepted by us in the complex, the employee throws his hands up in the air with a freaked out look on his face like..."What!!?"....rolls down the window, "Sir, you need to show corporate ID to access this complex"...."[email protected]!...(fumbling through wallet)...I don't have it"....."Ok sir, you need to show your state ID, and sign in on this register."....."I don't have time for this BS, I don't have my ID, Im not signing in"...."Sir, you are trespassing on _____ property and you need to leave immediately."

                      All it takes is having your ID at the ready at all times when on the property. Irritating. They are lucky they don't have to wear it around their necks.
                      formerly C&A

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by EMTGuard View Post
                        Some people will just have a problem with us and our job no matter how nice you are.
                        At the plant where I work we have a union employee parking lot. I can't even park in there since I'm a lowly contractor. The automatic gate arm at the entrance/exit to the lot broke about 3 years ago. So the employees don't have to swipe their IDs to get into the lot anymore. The client is in no hurry to get it fixed. We have a designated parking area for visitors, family, drop offs and pickups, etc up near our area by the main gate.
                        Nearly everyday I arrive at work and as I drive past the employee lot I see vehicles with kids inside (big sign at the main gate "No Children past this Point") and people clearly not employeed there. I walk into the guard shack, make relief, put my lunch box on the desk and walk out to the lot to clear the violators out. Many are vehicles and people I've seen before.
                        Me approaching car- "Good evening maam, can I help you?"
                        Woman in car- "No, I'm just waiting to pick someone up."
                        Me- "Well, if you wouldn't mind pulling over to the visitor parking area right up front there I'd appreciate it. Management wants only the union employees in this lot. Thanks."
                        The driver, clearly peeved off, drives out of the lot. Sometimes they park in the visitor area right under the signs marked Visitor Parking. Other times they drive right out the main gate and park out on the highway or just keep going. Then you get the employees showing up at the window of your guard shack complaining, "My wife just called me on the cell phone and said one of you guards just yelled at her and said she can't come into the plant."
                        You can't please everyone.
                        Happened again yesterday as I began my shift. As soon as the SO I releived drove off I was headed to the parking lot. Found a red pickup truck parked near the turnstyle. Not even in a parking slot but in the driving lane of the lot. Nobody behind the wheel but a woman in the passengers seat and a kid sitting in the back seat. She had pulled into the lot, parked and slid over waiting for her hubby to get off work.
                        I got her to roll down the window and said, "Maam, if you are waiting on someone I need to remind you that all drop offs and pick ups are done up at the Visitor Parking area up by the gate entrance."
                        Visibly upset she huffed and make a show of removing her seatbelt while saying "I've been parking in this lot for 2 years and nobody has ever said anything to me before."
                        As she drove off I didn't bother to remind her that in fact I had personally told her 3 times on 3 different days within the past 2 weeks. Maybe she has some sort of short term memory disorder. It's a good bet that she'll be parked in there again tommorrow and I'll have to move her again.
                        Hospital Security Officer

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                        • #42
                          I always like the "The guard (or your boss) let me do it yesterday" defence, even though you were the one on yesterday
                          You are not defeated unless you believe you are -Fernando
                          The world is full of willing people; some willing to work and the rest willing to let them - Robert Frost

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by flashlightcop509 View Post
                            I personally don't give a rat's 4th point of contact...
                            ROFLMAO!! It took me a second to get that, and now I can't stop laughing. I'm gonna have ta borrow that phrase
                            That's a direct quote. Not word for word, but the gist of it.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by EMTGuard View Post
                              Happened again yesterday as I began my shift. As soon as the SO I releived drove off I was headed to the parking lot. Found a red pickup truck parked near the turnstyle. Not even in a parking slot but in the driving lane of the lot. Nobody behind the wheel but a woman in the passengers seat and a kid sitting in the back seat. She had pulled into the lot, parked and slid over waiting for her hubby to get off work.
                              I got her to roll down the window and said, "Maam, if you are waiting on someone I need to remind you that all drop offs and pick ups are done up at the Visitor Parking area up by the gate entrance."
                              Visibly upset she huffed and make a show of removing her seatbelt while saying "I've been parking in this lot for 2 years and nobody has ever said anything to me before."
                              As she drove off I didn't bother to remind her that in fact I had personally told her 3 times on 3 different days within the past 2 weeks. Maybe she has some sort of short term memory disorder. It's a good bet that she'll be parked in there again tommorrow and I'll have to move her again.
                              ...well, like she said, "NOBODY has said anything to me before." Welcome to the wonderful World of Nobody. (Security officers admitted free of charge.)
                              "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                              "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                              "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                              "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by EMTGuard View Post
                                Happened again yesterday as I began my shift. As soon as the SO I releived drove off I was headed to the parking lot. Found a red pickup truck parked near the turnstyle. Not even in a parking slot but in the driving lane of the lot. Nobody behind the wheel but a woman in the passengers seat and a kid sitting in the back seat. She had pulled into the lot, parked and slid over waiting for her hubby to get off work.
                                I got her to roll down the window and said, "Maam, if you are waiting on someone I need to remind you that all drop offs and pick ups are done up at the Visitor Parking area up by the gate entrance."
                                Visibly upset she huffed and make a show of removing her seatbelt while saying "I've been parking in this lot for 2 years and nobody has ever said anything to me before."
                                As she drove off I didn't bother to remind her that in fact I had personally told her 3 times on 3 different days within the past 2 weeks. Maybe she has some sort of short term memory disorder. It's a good bet that she'll be parked in there again tommorrow and I'll have to move her again.
                                My College's policy is that the employee is responsible for their visitors, it's right there in the employee handbook.

                                In that same such situtation, after the 1st or 2nd warning (we don't have to warn at all, but we are touchy-feely campus cops and we want everyone to just love us LOL) we write a campus citation. It's only 5 bucks. For students if they don't pay it we with hold their grades at the end of the year until they do (same punishment for not turning in a library book lol).

                                For employees (or their "guests") it's the same 5 bucks, but a copy of the citation is forward to the employees 1st line supervisor. A 2nd citation is forwarded to the 1st and 2nd line supervisors (for facualty a 2nd line supervisor is a dean, for support employees it's their department director).

                                A 4th violation (for us, in the situations you described) is a City of Dallas parking citation (Dallas Parking Enforcement brings us new ticket books from time to time since we also enforce city ordinances, even though we aren't a city agency). It's only a $25 civil (non-criminal) fine, if they don't pay it a credit bureau gets it and it affects their credit, plus the city will tow them at owners expense (although the towing part is rare).

                                A 5th violation (and yea, some get there) is a County citation (aka a real ticket) and they get to explain to a Judge why they can't obey the law, then they get to pay anywhere between $100 and $225 plus court costs (depending on the charge the big fines are for things like "blocking a public access way" and such) plus whatever it takes to get their vehicle out of the pound if they get towed.

                                A couple people who got to 5 came very close to going to jail because their reactions we very close to becoming violent lol. What should one expect after multiple warnings and citations?

                                It doesn't happen often and we do softball people a lot the 1st couple times, but at least we do have some options to stop the madness. I feel for ya EMT, I know how frustrating your situation is.
                                Last edited by Black Caesar; 12-18-2007, 09:40 AM.
                                ~Black Caesar~
                                Corbier's Commandos

                                " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

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