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  • Training Horror Stories

    I did not see a thread on this so forgive me if there was.

    The last time I was at the range to requal, I recieved a very minor injury on my left leg. I was standing to the right of a individual ( he was right-handed ) who, during a conversation admitted that he was being sent to the range against his better judgement by his employer. He admitted he had very limited exposure to firearms and was slightly nervous about it. He had a terrible habit of keeping his trigger finger on the trigger while holstering. The Rangemaster and other Instructors did everything they could to help this guy out by giving him tips and demonstrations between relays. During our last relay at the 25 yard line if I recall, we emptied our weapons and advised to holster our firearms and told to standby. As always, this person holstered his Agency issued .38 with his finger on the trigger. And wouldn't you know it....POW! I felt a stinging pain in my left lower leg. I have never been shot, but I thought I was. This range being a outdoor range, the bullet went into the ground. But in turn, kicked up a rock that hit me. Everything froze and I felt a great pain in my leg. All of the range instructors came running over to me and the range master went to the other guy. The other guy stood there, in disbelief! He was speechless. When asked what had happened, he stuttered and stamored and just couldn't speak for some time after that! The rangemaster took his firearm and escorted him off the range. Needless to say, he failed! I do believe there should some realism in training, but for crying out loud!

    As Always,

    Be Safe

    Hank
    " We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on one hand and of overwhelming force on the other" - General George C. Marshall

  • #2
    Would I know this firm?
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Hank1 View Post
      I did not see a thread on this so forgive me if there was.

      The last time I was at the range to requal, I recieved a very minor injury on my left leg. I was standing to the right of a individual ( he was right-handed ) who, during a conversation admitted that he was being sent to the range against his better judgement by his employer. He admitted he had very limited exposure to firearms and was slightly nervous about it. He had a terrible habit of keeping his trigger finger on the trigger while holstering. The Rangemaster and other Instructors did everything they could to help this guy out by giving him tips and demonstrations between relays. During our last relay at the 25 yard line if I recall, we emptied our weapons and advised to holster our firearms and told to standby. As always, this person holstered his Agency issued .38 with his finger on the trigger. And wouldn't you know it....POW! I felt a stinging pain in my left lower leg. I have never been shot, but I thought I was. This range being a outdoor range, the bullet went into the ground. But in turn, kicked up a rock that hit me. Everything froze and I felt a great pain in my leg. All of the range instructors came running over to me and the range master went to the other guy. The other guy stood there, in disbelief! He was speechless. When asked what had happened, he stuttered and stamored and just couldn't speak for some time after that! The rangemaster took his firearm and escorted him off the range. Needless to say, he failed! I do believe there should some realism in training, but for crying out loud!

      As Always,

      Be Safe

      Hank
      Hank, I am surprised the range master did not break down shooters by categories, experienced and novices. Experienced shooters have one range assistant for every three shooters and novices have their own range assistant.
      It has been my experience that personnel receive at least 16-hours of training, four hours classroom, four hours hands-on weapons familiarization, four hours single shot drill and four hours shooting for score.
      Hank, I would hazard a guess that at some places you pays your money and takes your chances!
      Enjoy the day,
      Bill

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
        Would I know this firm?
        Yes..Nationally recognized Nathan.
        " We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on one hand and of overwhelming force on the other" - General George C. Marshall

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Bill Warnock View Post
          Hank, I would hazard a guess that at some places you pays your money and takes your chances!
          Yes Sir....
          " We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on one hand and of overwhelming force on the other" - General George C. Marshall

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Hank1 View Post
            Yes..Nationally recognized Nathan.
            heh, let me guess, I either work for this company or it's our big rival lol. Being as he had no exposure to firearms I'm gonna guess the latter
            SecurityProfessional is Back up and running!

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            • #7
              Hank - I attend a yearly annual in revolver and semi-auto and I have had the same instructor for some almost 7 years now. Years ago we had a training company just signing off on firearms permits with a little bonus to the trainers.

              OK let's begin. In the late 90's I resat my annuals and was placed in a group to help the instructor out a bit. We had 4 of us together, 10 feet apart as the instructor clearly said (I was on far left) (1) on my command bring your weapons out to ready position (2) check / clear your weapons (3) reload with a speed loader (4) come to ready to position (5) holster your weapon.

              So 3 of us did this but 1 idiot (to my right) fires off a round as the instructor is 3 feet in front of and to the right of him. I heard the shot and saw some discharge and was told by others, I stepped back with my hand moving to my side. The others hit the ground (outdoor range) as the Instructor yanked the .38 and sent him on his way - off range for 3rd safety and major breach.

              We pack up and every1 is told to have me check / clear their firearms as they lay them pointing down range on the shooters tables - cylinders open. Instructor is taking ONE firearm off each person with his back to the rest of my group I had checked and placing them in a metal ammo box. Brother of previous idiot pulls out his .38 and say "hey BOB, what do you want us to do with these ?" as his finger sits on on trigger to the back of the instructor who is bending over the metal case. I reached for the gun and yelled "STOP" (what we were told to say) as the instructor is confronted with a 4 inch barrel and finger on trigger. He yanked it from the brother's hand dislocating his finger - another 1 off range and this time reported both of them to the police.

              Same range, different instructor - 12 months earlier. We are assigned firearms and told DO NOT MOVE OFF SITE AND DO NOT UNHOLSTER THEM. We have a short lunch in the onsite cafe` as I point to a car driving bak onsite. Another idiot had got into town, with his rig and weapon on his hip, bought some lunch at McDonalds and now come back onsite. Instructor also saw this and sent him packing immediately - thanks for coming.

              Last annual - I assisted my instructor with a large group as safety officer (checking safety when off line). 1 idiot I reminded 3 times to keep his eyes and ears on ALWAYS. He ignored me the last time before the instructor heard me yelling and the range master banged on the glass walls to get his attention to obey safety rules. On the line I am standing 50 feet behind the group to keep the others away and safe when this same idiot in a fire - reload - fire exercise drops his speed loader and steps in front of the next shooter just as he shoots. A near fatality and this idiot gives off a blank stare. He is immediately ejected off range, from the company and reported to the police. 7 months later I see this same idiot working armed cash-in-transit and immediately contacted my instructor (he was using a friend's security licence to get work) so avoided the cancellation of his licence.

              I am sure there are others but these ones bring up some not so good memories. Can I just relate to a function we had with a law firm and the building security guards were armed when 1 was on patrol and used a private bathroom to "back one out" and left his .38 sitting on the cistern but forgot about it for 2 hours. My boss was also working the VIP client function (we were armed) so he informed me to call the police as this was a major offence now. It was found the next morning when a partner flew into visit a client on the weekend. That company folded a few months later with charges being laid by the police.
              "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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              • #8
                leaving firearms around is the "cool" thing to do around here.. allot of employers are happy as long as you dont leave your weapon in the bathroom or something. But it happens allot. Some cops have done it up here too but they manage to stay on the job. Never could figure out why someone would need to unholster their weapon, then take off the belt.. Or why they were unholstering in the car, office, lunch breaks, sitting posts..

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by gcmc security part 2 View Post
                  heh, let me guess, I either work for this company or it's our big rival lol. Being as he had no exposure to firearms I'm gonna guess the latter
                  It could be an armored company.
                  Some Kind of Commando Leader

                  "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
                    It could be an armored company.
                    Bingooooo!
                    " We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on one hand and of overwhelming force on the other" - General George C. Marshall

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I would like to know why some companies seem to think that just because the guy shows up with a ccw that he knows how shoot.

                      When I shoot with my .40 cal. and 9mm, I get 295 to 299 out of 300.
                      When I shoot with the crappy .38 S&W mdl. 10 my employer supplies, I nearly did not qualify the minimum or 210 (I got 214) and the best I have
                      been able to get is 274.

                      Shooting a wheelgun IS different from shooting a semi auto. The military and most police train and use semi auto, so these people do not know how to
                      properly use the wheelgun.

                      I shoot better with my .38 cal Ruger than with the lousy gun my employer gave me. (ever have a wheel gun jam on you?) Even the realtively good one I finally had assigned to me for a while had an annoying habit of the stem unscrewing every 12 rds. pushing the cylinder back. Just had to remember to screw it back in every time I reloaded.

                      My point being, these people need training. They pass the background (3 to 4 months), the pass the training, but the company will not spend the money to train them in use on the range. When I went thru the acadamy, we spent every other day on the range for 14 weeks! I do not expect the private employer to do that, but they could take them out to the range a couple of times before they had to qualify.

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                      • #12
                        Kingsman as many firearms training companies are folding as the cost of insurance, need for retraining and costs of replacing firearms (many were cheap off-sells from the police) are closing many people down. My instructor told me it is getting harder to import spare parts for his firearms so he is stripping what he can from many and now sharing firearms for training. So those clapped out .38's could be shared by 3 people doing 3 times the work with reloads and ejection problems common.

                        I too shot a few rounds with a .38 for my annuals (just for peace of mind) and agree that Stevie Wonder could have shot better on my first load. On my 2nd load I shot in the 80's and final 3rd round was 91 /100 so I was very happy with my results as 65 was minimum qualification results needed.
                        "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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                        • #13
                          It's business! The managers in "mis-management" don't care if this person is a danger to the public and himself. They need a body to put on a post. I seen a guard who carried a air soft glock. The owner of the company gave it to him, and he wore it on duty and charged the client for an armed guard. Their are lot's of frouds/con's in this business. Anything for a buck. It's not our industry it's anywhere they can make a quick buck. These so called business con's will destroy any industry as long as they can make a quick buck.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ESI AGENT View Post
                            These so called business con's will destroy any industry as long as they can make a quick buck.
                            I would agree with that.
                            " We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on one hand and of overwhelming force on the other" - General George C. Marshall

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Agreed - this is a universal problem world wide. I have seen companies paying about $9.00 US cash for a NYE job where the rate should have been about $36.00 US and these `head wobblers` with no English were happy "making good cash $$$" as 1 of them told me. A building site security company I worked along side used college students and paid a flat rate 20 hrs x $12.00 US through the books $10.00 US cash / hr over 20 hours. They did not care WHO went on site - just a body.
                              Last edited by NRM_Oz; 12-06-2007, 10:12 PM.
                              "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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