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  • Gangs and Retail/ Mall Security

    Hello All,

    Wow.... After working at my current job as a Loss Prevention Manager for a sporting goods chain for a few months I realize I have got it good. The two LP managers before me were career former LE. The manager that hired me on was a multi county narcotics unit commander in rural Arkansas (meth capital USA) and a former Arkansas State DPS Academy commandant. Not to mention he was a Army Ranger in Viet Cong country. The manager before him was a career state trooper in Alaska and served as Chief of the Local PD. This guy now works for me in a part time retirement capacity. Big shoes to fill for a guy like me, not yet 30 yoa.

    So over the last three years these managers have cemented my LP department in law enforcement community here in my town. We provide all sorts of criminal intellegence, gang surveillance, narcotics tips, and even assist the local property and financial crimes detective with cases not linked to our store. I am surprised if a day goes by and at least one pd detective, trooper narc investigator,gang officer, or ATF/DEA/FBI agent doesnt pop into my office or call me.

    Being a SQUIRREL SHERIFF (park ranger) and specialty investigator (alcohol beverage trade lic and bootleg interdiction) hasn't left me with much knowledge of gangs beyond what I learned at the academy.

    I'm writting this post to get ideas on anti gang crime prevention that would work in a retail/ mall complex environment? Also, do you know of any web based sites in gang id that would be helpful for me?

    I'm sure some of you salty dawgs like Col. Corbier, Sec. Trainer, and Mr. Warnock have some good resources.

    Thanks all,
    Justice_Hound
    Last edited by Justice_Hound; 11-18-2007, 02:02 AM.
    We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
    -George Orwell

  • #2
    JH as posted I also worked with a sporting goods company (no defunct) in Australia and yes they were in major malls around Australia. I used to speak alot with the local police stations to find out the latest stats and trends on crime such as heavy refund fraud or theft in a particular area.

    Are you talking ORC or ganger ? I will assume ganger and in 1 store a weedy acting 2IC stood up to 2 idiots tossing footballs around for this was king hit before the SM called me to help sort problems out in the store. I had worked covert many times before on internals and would wear a uniform to watch cashiers so did both at the entry. I had a few Mexican stand offs with 13 - 16 y/o wannabe's who would threaten me in a group but if isolated were gutless and I would stand up to them.

    I do know that the local coffee shop was doing a roaring trade as my presence was bringing back customers next to the store and the owner / manager was feeding me coffee and lunch everyday to ensure I was not wanting to go. Her business was packed for lunch as people did not feel intimidated by the local punks who assumed they were someone special. I was just doing my job but I also appreciated her kindness for working for my client and seeing a follow on affect.

    You should also speak with the Mall Security Manager - not the idiots underneath who will all give you a different impression and even a walk around the mall at the entry and food courts will give you an indication of what is going on around you. Perhaps even speak with security from other bigger retailers too ?
    "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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    • #3
      Originally posted by NRM_Oz View Post
      . I had a few Mexican stand offs with 13 - 16 y/o wannabe's who would threaten me in a group but if isolated were gutless and I would stand up to them.
      http://optuszoo.news.ninemsn.com.au/...74&_cobr=optus

      Unfortunately Gang mentality means everyones a Mike Tyson when it comes to picking on the innocent.

      We had 20 odd Sudanese enter our Center recently, they basically walked into shops and walked out again, most likely with their pockets filled.

      I was one up and decided my best course of action was to notify Police, unfortunately they were delayed. I decided to approach one pocket of youths and have a chat, and this actually worked.

      They pumped out their chests and looked like they hated everything about life, but they got the message and moved off.

      As they were leaving I continued chatting to one particular youth and he stated that I was "OK" I did not bully them I did not intimidate them, I chatted to them on their level.

      I guess what makes this all the more interesting is that exactly a week later the very same kid I was chatting to was dead, beaten up at a station in an adjoining suburb. This time unluckily for him he was alone and another rival gang took to him.

      PS: As a direct result to the above incident (one of many involving Sudanese youth) The government decided to halt applications for refugee status from the Sudan into Australia for a period of 12 months at which point will then be reviewed again.
      Last edited by Aussie-SO; 11-18-2007, 07:41 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Regarding MS-13

        Just thought I'd repost this here too. I posted it in regards to the Phillidelphia officers shot thread in the "in the line of duty" thread. Hope it helps.

        --------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Some facts I came up with about MS-13 for those of us not as familiar with them:

        Formed in LA in the 1980's by refugees from El Salvador.

        + / - 10,000 in US alone operating in cells or cliques. 50,000 to 1000,000 members world wide.

        MS-13 is known to be as far north as Alaska, I've even read of them being in the Toronto Montreal Vancouver areas.

        Some tattoos include telephone area codes and MS-13 in 'gothic style' font.

        Many hand signs, as most street gangs.

        Below are a couple links to stories regarding them that I found interesting.

        http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/we...Hg&oref=slogin

        Real good documentary, giving an overview of their beginnings and they present.

        http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ch&plindex =0


        MS-13 is like an antibiotic resistant plague and appears to be reaching all over our nations street's.

        Be safe out there if they're willing to off LEO's then S/O's are even fairer game no doubt, especially those who are unarmed.
        I'm the guy you don't want to be around when your doing something wrong, but you can't wait for me to get there when your down, to fix you up...

        If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.

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        • #5
          I attended the monthly police / LP intel meetings and quite often we would identify these idiots by the same clothing they wore or the tattoos. 1 arrest I assisted in was in a sister store of a 14 y/o girl for $125 in earrings. He b/f was brought in as well and I spotted his gang tattoos - these Vietnamese gangers are dangerous and when the police came onsite they had their cuffs out for him to secure him. He was wanted on a warrant for attempted murder and the bugger was sitting 6 feet away from me !!!
          "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

          Comment


          • #6
            Sadly...

            MS-13 has made it all the way up to the frozen north. Along with bloods, crips, sons of samoa, latin kings (who'd figure), vice lords (hopefully they are just wannabies), soldier boys and way too many others.

            Why is beyond me.
            We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
            -George Orwell

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Justice_Hound View Post
              Sadly...

              MS-13 has made it all the way up to the frozen north. Along with bloods, crips, sons of samoa, latin kings (who'd figure), vice lords (hopefully they are just wannabies), soldier boys and way too many others.

              Why is beyond me.
              It is sad that youths are attracted to this lifestyle, I guess they feel they need to fit in somewhere, or need the protection in rougher areas.

              As far as Asian gangs go, it established that the vast majority of Asian stores in Toronto were being extorted through paying for "protection" and this goes back to when the Toronto police first caught on to the trend back in the 80's. They operate in many different cells explaining why it is so hard to crack the gangs crimes.

              A great book and where I learnt about may gangs is, Good Guy Bad Guy by Yves Lavigne, the author who wrote books on the Hell's Angels.
              I'm the guy you don't want to be around when your doing something wrong, but you can't wait for me to get there when your down, to fix you up...

              If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Justice_Hound View Post
                Sadly...

                MS-13 has made it all the way up to the frozen north. Along with bloods, crips, sons of samoa, latin kings (who'd figure), vice lords (hopefully they are just wannabies), soldier boys and way too many others.

                Why is beyond me.
                In my experience, the wannabies are just, if not, more dangerous as the actual members. They are out to gain acceptance and approval.
                Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Security Consultant View Post
                  In my experience, the wannabies are just, if not, more dangerous as the actual members. They are out to gain acceptance and approval.
                  I have to agree with this statement. I had an incident about a year ago were a male shot at one of my co-workers for no other reason than to show the gang he was hanging out with that he was down and would shoot anyone they wanted. fortunately The bullet barely missed his head.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Justice_Hound View Post
                    Sadly...

                    MS-13 has made it all the way up to the frozen north. Along with bloods, crips, sons of samoa, latin kings (who'd figure), vice lords (hopefully they are just wannabies), soldier boys and way too many others.

                    Why is beyond me.
                    Don't forget the 907 Posse, AK Boyz, and (at least in Barrow) the Native Young Bloodz.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sadly in recent years we've also seen an increase in activity by these 'collections of oxygen thieves' in our non-metropolitan semi-rural regions, often preying on lone individuals going home from clubs but also more recently a local LEO

                      Unfortunately it seems only those who actually abide by the law are being entangled in it's web of technicalities and left unprotected, powerless & increasingly frustrated...

                      One interesting tactic used locally to disperse these troublesome collectives loitering around entrances of shopping centres, has been the use of 'folk music' OR 'classical' pumped through an external P.A. system, for some reason this doesn't sit well with self proclaimed (wanna-be) rappers/gang bangers LOL
                      "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

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                      • #12
                        Barry Manilow ................. was a popular choice and it seems to be dispersing gangs around inner city parks as well.
                        "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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