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Why the fascination with guns?

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  • Why the fascination with guns?

    I know that this can be a touchy subject. However, sometimes I get the impression that certain individuals want to be in security and/or LE because they can carry and use a gun. This apparent fascination with firearms concerns me because it reveals something regarding their motive for serving.

    I like the attitude that DMS displayed in a recent post where he said that, in all the many years that he worked armed security, he never had to use his gun. This was attributed to using other skills to defuse potentially deadly situations. Admittedly, some officers had no choice about using their firearms because of the circumstances. That's not what I'm talking about.

    Has anyone else noticed this eagerness exhibited by some to have a gun? If you honestly see some of this in yourself, why not speak to officers who have had to use deadly force. I'm sure that many of them will tell you that it's a traumatic event for all involved, one that you likely will never forget.
    Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

  • #2
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    I know that this can be a touchy subject. However, sometimes I get the impression that certain individuals want to be in security and/or LE because they can carry and use a gun. This apparent fascination with firearms concerns me because it reveals something regarding their motive for serving.(
    When I worked for a college PD in Southern California I sat on many oral interview boards. It was funny to see the facial expressions on some candidates when they were told that we did not carry firearms either on or off duty.

    One young (and before he made these comments, a very promising) candidate told the board (which consisted of myself, the chief, and the Dean of Students) that since state law explicitly authorized peace officers to carry concealed firearms off duty we could not prevent him from doing so.

    The chief pulled out his copy of the California Penal Code and pointed out to the candidate the phrase "under the terms and conditions of the employing agency" in the statute which the candidate seems to have missed when he read the law. The chief explained in no uncertain terms that "under the terms and conditions of the employing agency" means that if department policy forbids carrying off duty, you cannot carry, no matter what state law might allow.

    As you can imagine, we did not give that candidate a job offer. Sadly, the candidate got a job working for a private investigator that one of the college officers did some off duty work for also. The candidate was caught carrying a concealed pistol while on some sort of surveilence detail, was arrested and convicted. Thus permentely ending any possible career in law enforcement.

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    • #3
      That's what I love about Mississippi. We have some of the most leniant gun laws in the country, and any gun control act brought up in our house or senate is shot down in no time. Most agencies want you to carry a gun off duty to protect yourself. Here, any citizen with no felonies or serious misdemeanors can get a gun permit and carry a concealed weapon all day long!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Mr. Security
        I know that this can be a touchy subject. However, sometimes I get the impression that certain individuals want to be in security and/or LE because they can carry and use a gun. This apparent fascination with firearms concerns me because it reveals something regarding their motive for serving.

        I like the attitude that DMS displayed in a recent post where he said that, in all the many years that he worked armed security, he never had to use his gun. This was attributed to using other skills to defuse potentially deadly situations. Admittedly, some officers had no choice about using their firearms because of the circumstances. That's not what I'm talking about.

        Has anyone else noticed this eagerness exhibited by some to have a gun? If you honestly see some of this in yourself, why not speak to officers who have had to use deadly force. I'm sure that many of them will tell you that it's a traumatic event for all involved, one that you likely will never forget.
        I am trying to word this to not offend in any way or sound preachy(?).

        What I have noticed on here is several members are interested in firearms and are involved in the armed side of security to one extent or the other.

        Thus the talk among firearm enthusiasts can sound sorta overboard to a non-enthusiast much in the same way car talk, ham radio talk or just about anything can sound overboard to anyone not interested in that topic.
        I have my HAM Tech liscense (KC8TMB) and can tell you some of these guys sound like they live and brath for radio.

        The subject of MFg, caliber, mag capacity, barrel length etc is just part of the talk.

        But...If you do carry a firearm on duty or just for self-protection you need to know all you can about the firearm, capabilities (yours and the weapons), tactics, the legal and moral issues as well as know yourself very well.

        You do and it seems that you really enjoy unarmed security which is fine and by your posts it sounds as if you are very good at it.

        I on the other hand would rather work armed than not. I will take a contract to provide unarmed and will execute the contract to the best of my ability.

        My first security detail was in the military which was an armed detail and some of the security was heavily armed stuff as in riot shotgun or an M-14 along with a .45 This was USNavy and the Navy likes to reach out to touch you.

        So as you can see I cut my teeth on armed stuff and that is all I prefer to do. Also the contracts and details I take all have required armed

        Anyway that is just my thoughts on the subject.
        Take care and stay safe.

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        • #5
          Ramble ramble ramble

          I've seen this problem both as a LEO and a security officer. Thankfully, the police officer I saw who appeared to have a 'fascination' with guns was also a licensed gun dealer, which I didn't know on my first contact with him. None of the agencies I worked for ever had real gun nuts; however I remember a training event with several agencies....A Reno (NV) PD officer I met carried a .45 AND a .40 on his belt, carried a baby Glock .40 in his vest, and a KA-BAR knife in a sheath on his belt. He also told me about carrying a NAA .22 in his belt buckle, and about the several rifles he liked to carry in his trunk.

          As a security officer, it seems that all of the armed officers I work with are professionals, and regard their weapons as tools, not toys. Some of the unarmed officers I see on a regular basis do not, however. There is definitely a fascination and wannabee factor among several of them. It is nice that the armed sector I work in requires a minimum amount of active-duty military or LEO experience; the vetting process (including that damn MMPI) weeds out more of the 'undesireables'.

          Now if they could just get their act together on the background checks...I've had one to work ON the contract, one to work for the FAA, I'm in the middle of one for the FBI, etc...

          Like most of the guys I work with, I regard the weapon (gun) I carry as another tool, nothing more. I check it in the morning before work, clean it once a week (or after practice or rain), and hit the range every few weeks. The rest of the time it's just another piece of equipment on the belt, albeit one with an invisible 'bubble' around which NO ONE enters

          Sorry for the low-quality of this post, there's a half-time show blaring in the other room

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          • #6
            Originally posted by ACP01
            I am trying to word this to not offend in any way or sound preachy(?).

            What I have noticed on here is several members are interested in firearms and are involved in the armed side of security to one extent or the other.

            Thus the talk among firearm enthusiasts can sound sorta overboard to a non-enthusiast much in the same way car talk, ham radio talk or just about anything can sound overboard to anyone not interested in that topic.
            I have my HAM Tech liscense (KC8TMB) and can tell you some of these guys sound like they live and brath for radio.

            The subject of MFg, caliber, mag capacity, barrel length etc is just part of the talk.

            But...If you do carry a firearm on duty or just for self-protection you need to know all you can about the firearm, capabilities (yours and the weapons), tactics, the legal and moral issues as well as know yourself very well.

            You do and it seems that you really enjoy unarmed security which is fine and by your posts it sounds as if you are very good at it.

            I on the other hand would rather work armed than not. I will take a contract to provide unarmed and will execute the contract to the best of my ability.

            My first security detail was in the military which was an armed detail and some of the security was heavily armed stuff as in riot shotgun or an M-14 along with a .45 This was USNavy and the Navy likes to reach out to touch you.

            So as you can see I cut my teeth on armed stuff and that is all I prefer to do. Also the contracts and details I take all have required armed

            Anyway that is just my thoughts on the subject.
            Take care and stay safe.
            Good points. I liked your analogy about "Hams."
            Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by wilrobnson
              ........A Reno (NV) PD officer I met carried a .45 AND a .40 on his belt, carried a baby Glock .40 in his vest, and a KA-BAR knife in a sheath on his belt. He also told me about carrying a NAA .22 in his belt buckle, and about the several rifles he liked to carry in his trunk.
              .........
              Good grief!! Sounds like he was in a war-zone instead of Nevada.
              Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mr. Security
                Good grief!! Sounds like he was in a war-zone instead of Nevada.
                I have seen and know quite a few peace officers who do the same thing with knives. Knife in the vest, in each pocket, on a neck chain, in the boot, etc. Usually, those are folks who either know their limitations and realize they might have to shoot their way out of a losing fight or they just like to collect guns.

                The ones that make me wonder are the guys in California who use their peace officer status to buy weapons that are banned only in California, but God help anyone else who wants to own them. They write them off as "duty weapons," but of course aren't going to patrol with an Armalite .308 or a Barrett M82.
                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mr. Security
                  Good grief!! Sounds like he was in a war-zone instead of Nevada.
                  Indeed. When I questioned this, he got a little too Colonel Kurtz for me.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                    I have seen and know quite a few peace officers who do the same thing with knives. Knife in the vest, in each pocket, on a neck chain, in the boot, etc. Usually, those are folks who either know their limitations and realize they might have to shoot their way out of a losing fight or they just like to collect guns.
                    Just as I've seen SO's the same way. Especially the 'unarmed' ones I was speaking of...One carries a folder in his pocket, a little Spyderco on a neckchain, the requisite Leatherman in the pouch on his belt, a boot knife and a Kershaw auto-knife in his back pocket. For the same reasons, I suspect.


                    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                    The ones that make me wonder are the guys in California who use their peace officer status to buy weapons that are banned only in California, but God help anyone else who wants to own them. They write them off as "duty weapons," but of course aren't going to patrol with an Armalite .308 or a Barrett M82.
                    Hey, I was issued an AR-10t! Of course, I was on the 'reach-out-and-touch-someone' end of the team. They never approved the M203 though ::sniff::

                    IIRC, they also have to get the chief LEO of their agency to sign off on the purchase request? I never really had a lot of interest in buying my own arsenal...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ACP01
                      Thus the talk among firearm enthusiasts can sound sorta overboard to a non-enthusiast much in the same way car talk, ham radio talk or just about anything can sound overboard to anyone not interested in that topic.
                      I have my HAM Tech liscense (KC8TMB) and can tell you some of these guys sound like they live and brath for radio.

                      The subject of MFg, caliber, mag capacity, barrel length etc is just part of the talk.
                      I'm also a Tech level Ham (KC5SAS) and have been a firearm enthusiast since I was a teen. While I enjoy both my ham radio and gun hobbys I don't consider it extreme. I work unarmed security and if I ever get my gun card it would be because my company is willing to pay me more to sit on a armed post or because it would give me more options when looking for a new company to work for.
                      It's the same reason why I have a Chauffeur's drivers license. If I find myself looking for an EMT job with an ambulance service that requires a Chauffeur's license I'll already be that much closer to getting hired.
                      I worked as a corrections officer in a max security prison. Except for a short time I worked in the Field Unit I was on the compounds and in the dorms with the inmates and I was UNARMED. It was part of the job and we learned to work safely and practiced self defence to protect ourselves.
                      Off the job I carry concealed every day and enjoy shooting regularly at the range. When I get to work the gun comes off and is secured in the car. I have never had any desire to pack it on the job. While I can sit and talk ham radio, scanners or guns with the best of them I didn't get this job as an excuse to pack heat. I get off duty, change out of my uniform in the restroom in the guard shack and after I'm already in my car and off site do I put my gun on. Nothing facinating about it.
                      Hospital Security Officer

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wilrobnson
                        Just as I've seen SO's the same way. Especially the 'unarmed' ones I was speaking of...One carries a folder in his pocket, a little Spyderco on a neckchain, the requisite Leatherman in the pouch on his belt, a boot knife and a Kershaw auto-knife in his back pocket. For the same reasons, I suspect.
                        I carry one folder in my pants pocket. It's just a good utility knife used for everything from slicing the plastic bags of ice we put in a ice chest in the guard shack to a blade I use to slice wire or tighten up a loose screw. IF it breaks I'm out, maybe, $10 bucks.
                        Hospital Security Officer

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by EMTGuard
                          I'm also a Tech level Ham (KC5SAS) and have been a firearm enthusiast since I was a teen. While I enjoy both my ham radio and gun hobbys I don't consider it extreme....
                          I've read enough of your posts to know that you don't have this fascination. No worries.
                          Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                          • #14
                            because it's part of my religion...

                            ok seriously. From an LEO/security standpoint, and even from a citizen's standpoint, a weapon is a tool for the means of enforcing the law, and protecting one's life. A carpenter needs a hammer, a painter needs a brush. There are many things these tools can be used for. A pistol can be used as a deterent, a means of detainment, and if necessary a way of eliminating an immediate lethal threat. Sometimes just knowing that you're armed will make someone more complient to the rules you have to enforce.

                            I would prefer to be armed 24/7, and have the proper training to react to a threatening situation. Why? you never know when something bad could happen.

                            the argument can be made that: you could get killed walking your dog, driving a car, or getting struck by lightning, that doesn't mean you lock yourself in a vault for fear of something bad happening, does it?

                            My answer is: That's why we have crosswalks, dog leashes, seatbelts, crumple zones, air bags, and lighting rods... we surround ourselves with the tools and systems to keep us safer.


                            now there might be the idiot who thinks that having a gun or a knife, like described above, is cool, and makes them feel more powerful or whatever is going on in thier idiot minds... But that's not reality. The FACT is that a law abiding citizen, cop, security officer, will need to defend themselves from a violent encounter on and off the job. It's not IF... It's WHEN. Do you have the ability (equipment and training) to do so, or not....that is the question.


                            If wanting to be familiar with, train with, be profficient in the use of guns, knives, and other means of self-defense as a way of keeping myself and my loved ones safe, makes me a "gun freak" or whatever.... then so be it.


                            "A gun, is one of the few things in the world, that if you NEED one, nothing else will do. If you need one and dont have one you will probly never need one again."
                            Last edited by ocean; 02-06-2006, 04:30 AM.

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                            • #15
                              I have over 70+ of various firearms but only a few handguns. I collect guns as hobby although I recently put a stop on that.
                              I currently work armed security because it pays more then regular security. In my opinion, if you want to make any money in security field, "armed" is where the $ is at.

                              I believe that if officer is carrying a handgun on duty he should know everything about this life saving tool and I also mean the ammo he's carrying as well.
                              The more you know about handguns the better you will know how to use them when it matters. Also practice make perfect, just knowing would not do you much good if you're a poor shot to begin with.
                              I would rather be armed then "un" anytime anywhere. If someone would attempt to take my life I'll take his first and I'll sleep at night better too... I value my life above any low life who is driven by drugs animal instinct and has no purpose in life but to cause death and chaos. And if I do get in the situation I know I'll be ready......There's a saying "It's best to be judged by 12 then be carried by 6".

                              At my employment, the client and employer highly emphasize on firearm training. We train twice a mount every single month and we have to be proficient with our guns. Simply put, if we don't shoot acceptable score each time and after several times you will loose your firearm and pay that goes with it. So far we had only one officer go trough that.

                              Our employer provides everything, from our issued guns to ammo + 50rd of ammo a mount if one want to practice on our own time.

                              BUT.... I've seen people who are fascinated by guns but not in good way, someone with the lack of common sense would be better working for regular unarmed "guard" duty. I ran across quite a few in the past.
                              Last edited by FiveSeven; 02-06-2006, 05:02 AM.

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