Why not 100,000 V tasers?

[Black Caesar]

Some people are freaking out about "omg he sat on his neck"....

...The same way I did the during the 1st Defensive Tactics class in the academy.

As one of my old instructors put it (paraphrasing, it's been 11 years lol), "the human body is wayyyy tougher than the average uneducated (in police matters) civilian thinks it is, don't be squeamish about performing a tried and true tactic like the shoulder pin" (which is what you're seeing on the video) "just because it looks bad".

The solution is not for police (or security) to stop using the things actual experience on the ground have proven to be safe and effective (like shoulder pinning, Tasers and everything else, BTW I posted a scientific study on this very board about Tasers being safe), the solution is for civilians to be educated (yea, right, I know STOP LAUGHING ).

Unfortunately, that's not what happens. I was talking to my buddy (A Dallas Police Officer, we used to work a Wackenhut together way back in yesteryear and he stops in to see me sometimes) and he was telling me how guys in his department are very reluctant to use their batons for anything except smashing windshields and animal control, because they know that its [i]totally appropriate and legal" usage "wouldn't look right" to civilians and they just don't want the hassle.

Eventually, because of ignorant, biased reporting like in this Canadian case, this will happen with Tasers as well. Departments will not want the hassle, a proven, safe, effective tool that minimizes officer and offender injuries will be used less, public expenditures will rise (insurance costs for injured officers, lawsuits and medical care for offenders, just look at the 70s when police only had sticks and guns......) and the uneducated anti-police civilians will start screaming "WHY".

"And we'll answer "because you take everything from us that works, live with it".

[Justice_Hound]

Dude,

How the HELL do you know what a REAL professional is?
I have 2 ABET engineering degrees, so why should I bow down to
GED/High School graduate levels that are ordered to give specific results versus to assess the facts?

NO one was there except the Police, camera man, dead man, and few others. Effectively, you are seeing the ONLY relevent evidence of the incident other than drug tests of the dead man/Police, taser calibration evidence/dual taser shot physiological tests (any volunteers?), and xray of the dead man's cracked neck.

If you can not observe and report the facts and require someone to tell you what you see, then what gives you the right to tell any one any thing?

DDOG,
You are completely right You are a consumate professional.
Engineers face armed thugs and killers every day. I think we should have
a memorial developed in honor of every engineer that has passed
on in the line of duty protecting society from dangerous criminals

And I'm also sorry that my feeble high school & LE academy grad rear couldn't
possibly understand all of these COMPLEX issues. I will contact the police standards
council and let them know that I am not qualified to serve the people ever again as a
police officer cause I don't know anything! Likewise, I will contact the National Park
Law Enforcement Association to let them know that the Natural Resources LE training
guide for TASER INSTRUCTORS that I wrote is now null and void. Finally, I will
willfully give up my position as a USE of Force expert witness for the state prosecuting
attorneys office, defensive tactics instructor, and FIELD TRAINING OFFICER for my employer.

WHEW, glad I got all of that guilt out of my system! I dont think I could take it anymore.
So take your arrogant super engineer mind and consider the following.

ALL I WAS ORIGINALLY SAYING IS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE ALL THE FACTS AND WAIT UNTIL
THOSE SPECIFICALLY TRAINED INVESTIGATORS AT THE RCMP COME UP WITH A SPECIFIC
AGENCY POSITION CONCERNING THIS INCIDENT.

I am not gonna waste any more of my valuable time on this.

Justice_Hound

[Lawson]

...So.... Arby's everybody?

[OccamsRazor]

And I'm also sorry that my feeble high school & LE academy grad rear couldn't
possibly understand all of these COMPLEX issues. I will contact the police standards
council and let them know that I am not qualified to serve the people ever again as a
police officer cause I don't know anything!

Tanana or Sitka?

[OccamsRazor]

...So.... Arby's everybody?

Jalapeno Poppers with some of that funky Bronco Berry sauce!

[SecTrainer]

Dude,

How the HELL do you know what a REAL professional is?
I have 2 ABET engineering degrees, so why should I bow down to
GED/High School graduate levels that are ordered to give specific results versus to assess the facts?

If you were truly educated, you would realize that if you had 14,246,728.5 "ABET engineering degrees" they would have no relevance to this situation. You would also know that college degrees are no measure whatsoever of an individual's ability to think logically about a situation. We've all met lots of folks without degrees who are a great deal more mentally agile and capable of rational thought than some of the people who have degrees.

...and I don't think you want to start any food fights over degrees on this board by assuming anything about the other members' credentials unless you want to be buried alive, and I'll be first in line with a BIG shovel.

NO one was there except the Police, camera man, dead man, and few others. Effectively, you are seeing the ONLY relevent evidence of the incident other than drug tests of the dead man/Police, taser calibration evidence/dual taser shot physiological tests (any volunteers?), and xray of the dead man's cracked neck.

If you can not observe and report the facts and require someone to tell you what you see, then what gives you the right to tell any one any thing?

Exactly, as is true of you. Please follow your own excellent advice.

Me, I vote for Arby's! Those beef & cheddars go down lots better than ABET engineering degrees.

[Andy Taylor]

I'll take an Arby-que.

[ddog]

Hmmmm, well no volunteers I suppose. I always try to reason things out without blanket statements referring to some omnibus force of the heavens (which is anything but).

I could easily be proven wrong, but it would cost 2 - 50K V taser charges. If someone here would volunteer to getting shot TWICE with 1 SECOND in between shots, and then 5 SECONDS LATER have a 210 lb man drop his knee on their neck to the ground. But to reduce injuries, just drop the knee from ONLY a height of 6" from the ground.

Put this on YouTube and I would be proved wrong repeatedly, because it would be seen again and again: since closeup shots of a jackass stunt this lethal are rare

[SecTrainer]

Hmmmm, well no volunteers I suppose. I always try to reason things out without blanket statements referring to some omnibus force of the heavens (which is anything but).

Well, then, are YOU volunteering?

I could easily be proven wrong, but it would cost 2 - 50K V taser charges.

I'm all over that. Send me video of yourself being tased, and I'll send a check to cover the cartridges.

If someone here would volunteer to getting shot TWICE with 1 SECOND in between shots, and then 5 SECONDS LATER have a 210 lb man drop his knee on their neck to the ground. But to reduce injuries, just drop the knee from ONLY a height of 6" from the ground.

I repeat: What's stopping you? You're "someone", aren't you?

If you'll analyze the video, you'll see that the individual was not hit twice with one second between shots. At least I can't see that. He was hit, collapsed, fought with the officers, who attempted to establish control, and a bit after that someone said "hit him again", which takes about a second to say all by itself! Unless he was hit three times, I don't see the two consecutive hits one second apart.

Second, it doesn't matter if he was tased twice within one second because the effects of successive and even concurrent taser hits are not additive - that is, being hit twice even concurrently does not deliver "twice the effect". Second hits are used to prolong or refresh the effect, not to strengthen it. The maximum effect is achieved with one hit. It has actually happened several times that two officers with tasers have fired almost simultaneously and both struck the subject; nothing extraordinary happened, however, because the effects are not additive.

Third, with respect to the knee-pin, nothing uncommon about that and I'd have to get a much better look at that to see whether anything there was inappropriate - as would you. You sound like a little kid getting his first look at Smack-Down on TV - i.e., very impressionable. Most of us here are wise enough to know that very little in this world is what it appears to be - especially marginal-quality video.

[N. A. Corbier]

1. Two Rubens, hold the sauerkraut. Those little potato bites are good, and some curly fries.

2. I leave for two days and this thread goes to hell.

3. ddog isn't reading anything that you're writing, people. His reply was "nobody is going to do what I said, so you all suck."

[SecTrainer]

1. Two Rubens, hold the sauerkraut. Those little potato bites are good, and some curly fries.

2. I leave for two days and this thread goes to hell.

3. ddog isn't reading anything that you're writing, people. His reply was "nobody is going to do what I said, so you all suck."

Umm...isn't a Ruben without sauerkraut just a corned beef sandwich? Seems to me a little bit like ordering a chili dog, hold the chili.

[N. A. Corbier]

Umm...isn't a Ruben without sauerkraut just a corned beef sandwich? Seems to me a little bit like ordering a chili dog, hold the chili.

It still has thousand island dressing on it, and at Arby's ordering anything but the proper name will produce blank stares.

[OccamsRazor]

1. Two Rubens, hold the sauerkraut. Those little potato bites are good, and some curly fries.

Potato cakes with some of the "three pepper sauce" only a few of the franchised Arby's seem to have.

2. I leave for two days and this thread goes to hell.

If it went there, where did it start?

3. ddog isn't reading anything that you're writing, people. His reply was "nobody is going to do what I said, so you all suck."

Pay for the TASER and cartridges, and he can TASE me if he'd like. I'll even video tape it. I've had it done before, and I'm not afraid to do it again.

He would never follow through, anyhow.

[HotelSecurity]

There are no Arbys here in the frozen north. (At least not in Quebec) We've got a hamburger chain called Harveys

[OccamsRazor]

There are no Arbys here in the frozen north. (At least not in Quebec) We've got a hamburger chain called Harveys

But you guys make up for it with TH...I have to settle for that nasty Krispy Kreme place...Yuck!