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  • #16
    Originally posted by ddog View Post
    I appreciate the information received about firearms here from expert professionals, but don't think the jobs requiring firearms are worth the $1+ extra in pay. You actually make less money when considering licenses, firearm/ammo, requalifying, and/or firearm transportation logistical time.

    Security is cool because of unlimited job demand, free time on 3rd shifts (study hall periods), and wide variety of people interaction. Those are inherent strengths. Many make other opportunities out of Security, but those are not easy nor probable in most situations. Working two or three occupations these days, Security is what pays the bills in hard and in-between times.

    LE would be the best job for firearms imo, and SO's are playing against the odds in a targeted uniform carrying a visible sidearm. Our uniforms look just like Police if you are not 350 lbs and over 80 years old. I would rather be standing tall and looking good, while giving directions, waving, and giving "all appears secure" radio transmissions in the exclusive up-scale sites. They can afford to be overmanned and underutilized ;-)

    I don't want to alarm anyone carrying a sidearm, but you are just an escape goat of liability for a corporate accountant. Your life is a writeoff for a minimum Workmans Comp settlement, if someone fights the system to get it; and your company gets a significant profit for that liability, which you will never see. In fact, you will likely never break even with all the costs associated with carrying sidearms. And those that do, or the few who profit, have placed a profit value upon their life every time they step into a 7-11 going to work. Good luck.
    I'm afraid there isn't much about your assessment - either about security in general or about the pro's and con's of being armed - that I can agree with.
    "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

    "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

    "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

    "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

    Comment


    • #17
      Y'know...

      As an example, lets say I was out being rowdy and inconsiderate I'd rather be confronted by security with a gun, than a dog and I'll be more likely to follow what the dog handler says than the guy with the gun.
      I used to think the same thing until I had a pistol stuck in my face. They get your attention pretty quick...

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
        I'm afraid there isn't much about your assessment - either about security in general or about the pro's and con's of being armed - that I can agree with.

        Good. Your total subjective disagreement with no logic at all, is my acid test to being on the right channel. For a trainer, your limited education hurts your aggressive assertiveness on being right without question or explanation. The more you know, the less confident you are in your assessments. Therefore, you are totally confident in your convictions without expressing any justifications what so ever. Pesimists are usually right, and the standard way if 'thinking' predominantly benefits the rich industry. Grow up, get real, and read a book or two.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
          I'm afraid there isn't much about your assessment - either about security in general or about the pro's and con's of being armed - that I can agree with.
          You beat me to it.

          The public usually won't be bothered to even notice if you're wearing a belt, let alone a duty rig with or without a gun on it. When I wore an extremely large 4" revolver in a huge SSIII retention holster, there would be people who would ask if I were armed. Their eyes never left my face, both before asking, or after.

          People don't seem to watch hands, watch waists. They focus on the face and chest, it seems.

          As far as having a gun and looking like the police... If you look like the police, you are a target. Like I said. People look at chests and faces, not waists. So, guess what? They see cop uniform, cop badge, cop look, and think "I gonna go %[email protected]! with that cop!" They do not look for a gun, and then go, "Oh, that's a security guard, I need to find another cop to %@!$ with." You'll do just fine.

          I would caution anyone entering any public space with a uniform on, not just the ones who happen to have a gun on. Most likely your employer, who's policy states not to be in public spaces with his/her uniform on unless arriving or departing work, will agree with my caution.

          Can someone please tell me how the worker's compensation insurance will enable a company to profit on a payout for death benefits?
          Some Kind of Commando Leader

          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

          Comment


          • #20
            I have been carrying a firearm for 9 years. I can not and will not wear a uniform and be unarmed. I have worked these area for a long time and my life has been threatened hundreds of times ( I have angered a awful lot of people). It has nothing to do with being a badass or Hollywood cool. There have been dozens of instances that could have went south, but the fact that my weapon was with me stabalized the situation. In my 9 years of being a armed Officer, I have pointed my firearm at a human being only a few times.

            Be Safe,

            Hank
            " We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on one hand and of overwhelming force on the other" - General George C. Marshall

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by ddog View Post
              I appreciate the information received about firearms here from expert professionals, but don't think the jobs requiring firearms are worth the $1+ extra in pay. You actually make less money when considering licenses, firearm/ammo, requalifying, and/or firearm transportation logistical time.
              Interesting viewpoint.

              Piece by piece:

              $1+ extra in pay
              I make about $8-10 an hour more than 99% of unarmed guards in this area.

              considering licenses
              Paid for by the company.

              firearm/ammo
              Gun provided by the company, duty ammo as well. I pay for my practice ammo, but have found a decent deal on it locally. 100 rounds a week can add up fast, so I do a lot of looking.

              requalifying
              Ammo and range fees are paid by the company, and I get paid full wages while shooting.

              firearm transportation logistical time
              I don't quite understand that one...I put my duty belt on with gun in holster, and go to work. The process is the opposite when I'm off. Sign out, drive home, remove duty belt, lock up. Where the hell do you live this is an issue?

              Comment


              • #22
                I agree the uniform is a target itself, but not on an exclusive up-scale environment; or less than 1% chance from the 'normal' street assignment where one is required. If you say that someone yielding a gun does not notice if a uniform is armed or unarmed, then I'd say a realistic point of view would be a probablistic viewpoint rather than a mutually exclusive prediction.

                Reply to your replies earlier, piece by piece without the redundant viewpoints I will illucidate below.

                Originally posted by OccamsRazor View Post
                Interesting viewpoint.

                Piece by piece:


                I make about $8-10 an hour more than 99% of unarmed guards in this area.
                How much gross are you talking about, or are you saying $18K/year difference is the value you place for the increased risk of your life?


                Originally posted by OccamsRazor View Post
                Paid for by the company.
                That is reasonable and the law I believe. But WHO gets paid the initial upfront license/firearms cost with no experience or training; and the initial investment in training firearms is the most significant cost? All the ads I see is G license required for $10.00 to $13.50 on average. So they are NOT going to reimburse the INITIAL outlay for license and firearms: since most will WANT to know their weapon intimately from the START for safety sake. Please let everyone know what they have to do to get G license, firearms, and ammo reimbursed without experience, AND get $8 to $10 more than rate whatever you are assuming that is. This sounds like good information for others who wish to make $42K/year and get ALL their firearm/licensing fees reimbursed before they get their first job. Please.

                And if you spend only 40 hrs per week at $42K/yr, you could possibly fnd an equal opportunity with your skills, and make double that for 10 years and retire. $42K/yr on a 40 hour work week is rich. I made up to $70K/yr as an engineer, but I worked up to 80 to 100 hrs/week with no overtime and moved constantly(corporate slave) :-(

                Originally posted by OccamsRazor View Post
                Gun provided by the company, duty ammo as well. I pay for my practice ammo, but have found a decent deal on it locally. 100 rounds a week can add up fast, so I do a lot of looking.
                This activity is required: cost and time per X period shopping for ALL weapon upkeep items.

                Originally posted by OccamsRazor View Post
                Ammo and range fees are paid by the company, and I get paid full wages while shooting.
                That's nice, but depending on travel time and rounds per target, can go rapidly firing 100 rounds.


                Originally posted by OccamsRazor View Post
                I don't quite understand that one...I put my duty belt on with gun in holster, and go to work. The process is the opposite when I'm off. Sign out, drive home, remove duty belt, lock up. Where the hell do you live this is an issue?
                It is easy. You have to drive from home to work and work to home every day, unless you have a conceiled permit (which seems like an essential license you need, most companies WILL not foot the bill). Anyway, you are always concerned with handling and moving the weapon upmost. Most peoples time is their most treasured resource, depending on how far you are from work and how packed your schedule is. But assuming you enjoy life and try to optimize your activities in a critical path sequence, rather than random chance and unplanned activities, most consider the burden of handling a weapon logistically, or even carrying one in the event of theft or misfiring a liability in emotional baggage and a preoccupation that is always hanging over your head. It may become instinctive after a while, but we do have many LE officers who were tops in their field in registered firearms NOW SO's ONLY. It only takes one slip for your life, and in security, I've found out, like anything else, I learn from my mistakes. Mistakes with weapons carries a larger price than others. Of course you may be right all the time. And that is why you make double the wages and never paid for any licensing/firearms fees from the start. I'd say you are special.

                We have a SO who footed the bill for license and special 7 shot .357 S&W. So far, its not required at our job. He worked one day at Allied for $10/hr, the same as unarmed now which he gets overtime of 2 to 4 shifts per week (lucky guy). He also worked a $15/hr job for about 3 to 4 shifts carrying $8M worth of diamonds around in a station wagon. He's made about $750 income from the weapon and spent over $1500 expenses (at least) to date. The difference in the $750 income he made is about zero $ net, leaving a net cost to date of over $1500 plus cost of money/time/interest (he could use to live on now). Now he has requalification, licenses, and no net income to date from his weapon. But I don't see how to start out any other way, and its a risk you take. He will be ready when that opportunity comes his way though.

                Please tell us how you do it. Sounds like useful information the group of SO's can learn from without risking their lives and livelihood.

                Thanks in advance
                Last edited by ddog; 11-06-2007, 02:50 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  The Concealed Pistol License cost me $400 plus $600 for the gun I bought. So I have a $1000 dollar investment. license is for 3 years, and the average work is for 2080 hours a year, so if you are paid $1 more, then you are making 1080 a year more for armed, and $5160 more over three years.

                  However, I have seen armed security work for as little as minimum wage, and I have worked as an armed supervisor for $12.50

                  I now work armed security and earn as much or more than a police officer and it is much less risky. (limited public accessible site)

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    ...

                    I agree the uniform is a target itself, but not on an exclusive up-scale environment; or less than 1% chance from the 'normal' street assignment where one is required.
                    See, this "logic" is highly problematic. There is no way to determine how much risk you are in at a specific day/time/location. Yes, you can look at past statistics, but those are hardly always accurate. Look at the OKC building or any of the schools involved in shootings. Prior to these attacks, nobody thought twice about protecting themselves. Do they now? Of course. It is dangerous to think that because you work at the Hilton in Malibu that you will not need to be armed. Most of the violent crime I have witnessed while working has been in upscale areas by not-so-much upscale people.

                    I make about $8-10 an hour more than 99% of unarmed guards in this area.

                    How much gross are you talking about, or are you saying $18K/year difference is the value you place for the increased risk of your life?

                    How is added equipment to protect one's self with increased risk? With proper training and equipment, you are more likely to survive altercations involving weapons.


                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by OccamsRazor
                    Paid for by the company.
                    That is reasonable and the law I believe.
                    Not necessarily law, but some companies do it, foolishly at times, in good faith that they will keep an employee around.

                    But WHO gets paid the initial upfront license/firearms cost with no experience or training;
                    I recieved all my training funded by my company. I chose to carry my personal firearm because I like it better and I know how well it has been maintained. I certainly had the option of taking one from the armory.


                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by OccamsRazor
                    Gun provided by the company, duty ammo as well. I pay for my practice ammo, but have found a decent deal on it locally. 100 rounds a week can add up fast, so I do a lot of looking.

                    This activity is required: cost and time per X period shopping for ALL weapon upkeep items.
                    Putting time into training is a responsibility of the SO. If someone is not willing to put forth that initiative, they need to find a different job. I'd hate to work with the guard who won't tax himself so much as to spend a few hours/week or month on the range honing his skills. Time shopping is alos negligible and irrelevant. At least for me...I live in Texas, I can pretty much buy gun stuff and groceries at the same place. Also, many armed SO's turn out to be firearms enthusiasts anyway, so spending time purchasing things for a weapon is fun and not seen as a drag or duty. Furthermore, if one is armed, do you think they consider the 30 minutes or so in the gun store more valuable than the years of life they could possibly save by having a well-maintained firearm?


                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by OccamsRazor
                    Ammo and range fees are paid by the company, and I get paid full wages while shooting.

                    That's nice, but depending on travel time and rounds per target, can go rapidly firing 100 rounds.

                    Still, sure wish we got paid for range time. But they wouldn't be able to stay in business long. Guys like me hit the range religiously.



                    It is easy. You have to drive from home to work and work to home every day, unless you have a conceiled permit (which seems like an essential license you need, most companies WILL not foot the bill).
                    You only need a concealed permit if the weapon is out of sight. Most states, N.A., you may know for sure, that I have heard about allow for SO's to carry to/from work.

                    Anyway, you are always concerned with handling and moving the weapon upmost.
                    I certainly don't get my drawers in a knot worrying about it though. I'm sure many here are the same.

                    Most peoples time is their most treasured resource, depending on how far you are from work and how packed your schedule is.
                    This is where one must exercise "common" sense. You know there are certain places you cannot carry, handle that before work or on your day off. Not that hard.

                    But assuming you enjoy life and try to optimize your activities in a critical path sequence, rather than random chance and unplanned activities, most consider the burden of handling a weapon logistically, or even carrying one in the event of theft or misfiring a liability in emotional baggage and a preoccupation that is always hanging over your head.
                    Nope, never really consider my weapon to be a burden. I also don't understand the concept of carrying as emotional baggage. If that is how you feel, I believe you are better off without a gun, please don't ever carry near me.


                    We have a SO who footed the bill for license and special 7 shot .357 S&W. So far, its not required at our job. He worked one day at Allied for $10/hr, the same as unarmed now which he gets overtime of 2 to 4 shifts per week (lucky guy). He also worked a $15/hr job for about 3 to 4 shifts carrying $8M worth of diamonds around in a station wagon. He's made about $750 income from the weapon and spent over $1500 expenses (at least) to date. The difference in the $750 income he made is about zero $ net, leaving a net cost to date of over $1500 plus cost of money/time/interest (he could use to live on now). Now he has requalification, licenses, and no net income to date from his weapon. But I don't see how to start out any other way, and its a risk you take. He will be ready when that opportunity comes his way though.
                    This whole statement is basically irrelevant. It fails to take into account the SO ever working again. You cannot base profit v. expenses on a few days of work, unless he chooses not to continue employment in which case, it still doesn't matter. Also, if he spent that much $$ on his weapon, etc. he needs to have his head checked. I started with a $200 .38 snub that works great to this day + $150 license and about $75 at the range monthly, I can't say that the expenses are too terrible. I make almost $700/check as an armed SO and that is while being a full-time college student. Apparently, the money is there if the SO puts forth the effort to get it.
                    Last edited by ; 11-06-2007, 02:52 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by dougo83 View Post
                      See, this "logic" is highly problematic. There is no way to determine how much risk you are in at a specific day/time/location. Yes, you can look at past statistics, but those are hardly always accurate. Look at the OKC building or any of the schools involved in shootings. Prior to these attacks, nobody thought twice about protecting themselves. Do they now? Of course. It is dangerous to think that because you work at the Hilton in Malibu that you will not need to be armed. Most of the violent crime I have witnessed while working has been in upscale areas by not-so-much upscale people.




                      How is added equipment to protect one's self with increased risk? With proper training and equipment, you are more likely to survive altercations involving weapons.



                      Not necessarily law, but some companies do it, foolishly at times, in good faith that they will keep an employee around.



                      I recieved all my training funded by my company. I chose to carry my personal firearm because I like it better and I know how well it has been maintained. I certainly had the option of taking one from the armory.




                      Putting time into training is a responsibility of the SO. If someone is not willing to put forth that initiative, they need to find a different job. I'd hate to work with the guard who won't tax himself so much as to spend a few hours/week or month on the range honing his skills. Time shopping is alos negligible and irrelevant. At least for me...I live in Texas, I can pretty much buy gun stuff and groceries at the same place. Also, many armed SO's turn out to be firearms enthusiasts anyway, so spending time purchasing things for a weapon is fun and not seen as a drag or duty. Furthermore, if one is armed, do you think they consider the 30 minutes or so in the gun store more valuable than the years of life they could possibly save by having a well-maintained firearm?





                      Still, sure wish we got paid for range time. But they wouldn't be able to stay in business long. Guys like me hit the range religiously.





                      You only need a concealed permit if the weapon is out of sight. Most states, N.A., you may know for sure, that I have heard about allow for SO's to carry to/from work.



                      I certainly don't get my drawers in a knot worrying about it though. I'm sure many here are the same.



                      This is where one must exercise "common" sense. You know there are certain places you cannot carry, handle that before work or on your day off. Not that hard.



                      Nope, never really consider my weapon to be a burden. I also don't understand the concept of carrying as emotional baggage. If that is how you feel, I believe you are better off without a gun, please don't ever carry near me.




                      This whole statement is basically irrelevant. It fails to take into account the SO ever working again. You cannot base profit v. expenses on a few days of work, unless he chooses not to continue employment in which case, it still doesn't matter. Also, if he spent that much $$ on his weapon, etc. he needs to have his head checked. I started with a $200 .38 snub that works great to this day + $150 license and about $75 at the range monthly, I can't say that the expenses are too terrible. I make almost $700/check as an armed SO and that is while being a full-time college student. Apparently, the money is there if the SO puts forth the effort to get it.
                      Good job! I could live with that.

                      Dang! $700/70% for taxes = $1000/week gross x 52 weeks/yr= $52K/year! I'm still waiting on any suggestions on how to put forth the 'effort' to get it: ANY suggestions. Competency, duty, attention to detail, and accepting responsibility often just gets me more work without the rewards more times than not I've seen so far in this business (random overtime at best for 2 weeks a month). I'm not complaining, but just accept it for what I've witnessed to date. If there's anything I've missed, its not because a significant effort has not been made above and beyond all standards. I've already resigned to the fact that getting a RN certification for offshift work to go along with my trading career will be easier than figuring out how to realistically make that much in Security ('hoping' a year and half enough to do it while earning/learning with several previous degrees and on-line courses to expedite process). And I'm not moving to Texas nor a Northern large city metropolitan to do it. But SO jobs flexibility is nice and I appreciate it for what it is. So if anyone want to tell how much you make without any details, tell it to someone who cares because effort alone is not a significant factor of detailess claims that are abnormally paid well above industry norms, imo. I'm not lucky nor azz-kissey constantly (just every now and then), so I just plan to earn everything the hard way from the start. Its easier and a more confident probability in the long run and short term as well.
                      Last edited by ddog; 11-06-2007, 10:45 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ddog View Post
                        How much gross are you talking about, or are you saying $18K/year difference is the value you place for the increased risk of your life?
                        While I working unarmed, waiting for my armed license, I was at a site paying $9.25 an hour, and then another site paying $13 an hour. Where I am now, I make around $22 an hour.

                        $9.25/hourly x 1920 hours yearly (roughly full time) = $17760 yearly.
                        $13/hourly x 1920 hours yearly = $24960 yearly.
                        $22/hourly x 1920 hours yearly = $42240 yearly.

                        There is a large difference.

                        As to the 'increased risk' factor, I'd personally say that's negligible. You can get killed walking your doggie. It's probably statistically riskier to drive the 30 miles one-way I drive to work than to carry the gun.


                        That is reasonable and the law I believe. But WHO gets paid the initial upfront license/firearms cost with no experience or training; and the initial investment in training firearms is the most significant cost? All the ads I see is G license required for $10.00 to $13.50 on average. So they are NOT going to reimburse the INITIAL outlay for license and firearms: since most will WANT to know their weapon intimately from the START for safety sake. Please let everyone know what they have to do to get G license, firearms, and ammo reimbursed without experience, AND get $8 to $10 more than rate whatever you are assuming that is. This sounds like good information for others who wish to make $42K/year and get ALL their firearm/licensing fees reimbursed before they get their first job. Please.
                        And if you spend only 40 hrs per week at $42K/yr, you could possibly fnd an equal opportunity with your skills, and make double that for 10 years and retire. $42K/yr on a 40 hour work week is rich. I made up to $70K/yr as an engineer, but I worked up to 80 to 100 hrs/week with no overtime and moved constantly(corporate slave) :-(
                        I don't know what a 'G' license is, sorry. Where I work, you need an "armed private security guard" license, Google it for the requirements if you want. I believe it's classwork and then a trip to the range for quals.

                        Sure, I could work 40 hours a week at $22/hour and make $42k a year or so, but with the voluntary OT I've been racking up the last two months, I look to hit around $60k this year. No more OT right now, though, ski season is around the corner.

                        This activity is required: cost and time per X period shopping for ALL weapon upkeep items.
                        I don't understand that statement. Practice is not required, or even encouraged by my company for some reason, but I hit the range weekly to work out with my duty weapon and personal ones. Shooting sports is a hobby of mine, and I get to enjoy firing another gun without having to buy it.

                        That's nice, but depending on travel time and rounds per target, can go rapidly firing 100 rounds.
                        Travel time to the range for yearly quals is around 5 minutes, 10 if by surface streets.

                        It is easy. You have to drive from home to work and work to home every day, unless you have a conceiled permit (which seems like an essential license you need, most companies WILL not foot the bill). Anyway, you are always concerned with handling and moving the weapon upmost. Most peoples time is their most treasured resource, depending on how far you are from work and how packed your schedule is. But assuming you enjoy life and try to optimize your activities in a critical path sequence, rather than random chance and unplanned activities, most consider the burden of handling a weapon logistically, or even carrying one in the event of theft or misfiring a liability in emotional baggage and a preoccupation that is always hanging over your head. It may become instinctive after a while, but we do have many LE officers who were tops in their field in registered firearms NOW SO's ONLY. It only takes one slip for your life, and in security, I've found out, like anything else, I learn from my mistakes. Mistakes with weapons carries a larger price than others. Of course you may be right all the time. And that is why you make double the wages and never paid for any licensing/firearms fees from the start. I'd say you are special.
                        That's an interesting statement. Let's break it down.

                        You have to drive from home to work and work to home every day, unless you have a conceiled permit (which seems like an essential license you need, most companies WILL not foot the bill).
                        How else would I get to work? On the shift I work, in the location I work, public transit is not an option. Even when it was, I took it daily to save gas. I do have a concealed pistol license, as I carry a weapon 99% of the time when I'm not at work or on my way to or fro. So does my wife. I carry a gun because a cop would be too heavy. No, the company does not foot the $52 a concealed license costs, nor is it a requirement.

                        Anyway, you are always concerned with handling and moving the weapon upmost.
                        I'm usually more concerned with staying aware of my environment. The gun stays in it's holster like I tell it to.

                        Most peoples time is their most treasured resource, depending on how far you are from work and how packed your schedule is.
                        30 minutes from work (in bad traffic). Yes, my time is important to me, that's why I work armed vs unarmed. Working unarmed for half my pay or less would necessitate carrying a second job- not an option for me, I like my family.

                        most consider the burden of handling a weapon logistically, or even carrying one in the event of theft or misfiring a liability in emotional baggage and a preoccupation that is always hanging over your head.
                        I don't. I've had the training and practice to ensure any 'misfiring' I do means a miss at the bullseye on the range, this is why I shoot weekly. Shooting skills are a muscle memory skill...If I don't practice, I get rusty. I practice safe weapons-handling skills, and can be equally safe with my Zombinator Remington 870 shotgun, or the company's Glock.

                        I don't go around worried to death about carrying a gun, I go around worried to death I may have to use it.

                        Of course you may be right all the time. And that is why you make double the wages and never paid for any licensing/firearms fees from the start. I'd say you are special.
                        Yeah, me and the other 120 guards I work with. But thanks for calling me special.

                        We have a SO who footed the bill for license and special 7 shot .357 S&W. So far, its not required at our job. He worked one day at Allied for $10/hr, the same as unarmed now which he gets overtime of 2 to 4 shifts per week (lucky guy). He also worked a $15/hr job for about 3 to 4 shifts carrying $8M worth of diamonds around in a station wagon. He's made about $750 income from the weapon and spent over $1500 expenses (at least) to date. The difference in the $750 income he made is about zero $ net, leaving a net cost to date of over $1500 plus cost of money/time/interest (he could use to live on now). Now he has requalification, licenses, and no net income to date from his weapon. But I don't see how to start out any other way, and its a risk you take. He will be ready when that opportunity comes his way though.

                        Please tell us how you do it. Sounds like useful information the group of SO's can learn from without risking their lives and livelihood.

                        Thanks in advance
                        I don't get your hard-on for armed guards, truly, I don't. But that would appear to be your problem.

                        Would it help if I told you I've recently been kicking around the idea of going back into LE? My arthritis isn't bad lately, and I found a place in California that pays $7277 a month to start, with 3 twelves a week.

                        One less gun-toting guard for you to be scared of, I guess.
                        Last edited by ; 11-06-2007, 09:58 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          ddog is from Florida, and seems to forget that the rest of the country is not as ass backwards as Florida when it comes to the security industry.

                          A few facts:

                          The average man hour bid is 12-30 dollars, with Wackenhut Corporation asking 30 dollars a man hour for an armed guard. Most companies are asking 13-14 dollars for an armed guard. That's right. They're asking for 13.50 for THEM, and paying 8-9 the employee 8-9 an hour. Unarmed guards are bid as little as 11.45 an hour, and paid 6-7 an hour.

                          In Tampa Bay, 10 dollars an hour for an armed guard was usually a supervisor. Most likely a salaried supervisor. I know that CIS publishes their pay schedule, and if I remember correctly most command grade supervisors were rolling around 12-14. That's expensive pay for a supervisor in Florida.

                          Companies in Florida will really only buy your G (200-300 for the course, then another 180 to the State for your license fee, plus 10-25 bucks range fee) license (Statewide Firearms Permit) if they're really desperate for guards, if you're in the armored car business (everyone needs a license, after all...), or if you're "made" with the company. I was extremely lucky that my G was bought for me, as was my weapon and holster. Most guards would show up to post wearing a beat up .38 and a uncle mikes sporting holster, because they were either stupid or it was all they could afford.

                          The kicker is, ddog seems (while also advocating the legalization of marijuana in another thread using the NORML approach) to decry anything short of observe and report security, a special type of it seen at gated condo communities. These communities are ... "exclusive," as in that they're mini-fortresses. I used to visit someone at one. The public could not get in. The guards were usually retirees. They lived in virtual palaces, and believed themselves better than "security guards." They preferred to use the term "gate attendant" or another non-security term.

                          What ddog and others do not realize is that for all that, it is in the best interest of the gated condo association to replace the gate guard from the guard firm with a volunteer from within the community. I have seen several boards do this. It saves them money, no more headaches from security guard companies. There is NO expectation of security by anyone, because joe blow is providing "welcoming" duties to people driving in. If you don't even have a "security guard" present, nobody's going to say that the place is protected, after all.

                          Even better, Joe Blow retiree who is part of the "welcoming committee" isn't bound by FSS 493, and neither is the client. Unless Joe has a Class D license, then he's bound no matter if he's in the shower or at work. So, there are no problems with FSS 493's regulations regarding confidentiality (Joe tells someone the wrong thing with a D license... Joe is a criminal.), etc.

                          Contract guards working these palaces should well remember that owner-managed condos are talking to each other, and what they're saying is dump the flaky guard force, and stop paying money for nothing. They know the guards aren't there to protect anything, just call 911. And they know that in the end, they can give a gossip monger old lady a polo shirt or a name-tag and stick her ass on the front gate, as well.
                          Some Kind of Commando Leader

                          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
                            ddog is from Florida. A 'G' license is the statewide firearms license. Most companies do not pay more than a dollar extra for an armed security position. Very few companies will buy a license. Some companies issue a gun.
                            So....the overweight donut vaccuum in the ill-fitting polyester uniform, working the guard shack at some controlled-access location makes just as much as one of the CSI armed-anti-terror-high-speed-tacticool guys?

                            **** Floriduh.

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                            • #29
                              In my workplace (a check cashing store) or one similar to it, such as a bank, not only would I not work without a firearm, but I wouldn't work without a bulletproof vest either.

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                              • #30
                                I have worked unarmed posts before, I don't particularly care for them but I understand that there won't always be armed post work available. I take care not to get myself into a situation that might go south especially if unarmed....in any situation remember 911 is your friend.
                                The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke.

                                Quis custodiet ipsos custodes ?

                                www.patrol4u.com


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