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  • NRM_Oz
    replied
    Agree with you - camera or not I just follow the procedures established or in a recent case ensure my crew followed their directions from me (it was a false alarm) this time. I don't see your post as attacking me and I enjoy reading all the different posts from all points of view - hence the forum.

    It's the not the first time I have been on tv before and I am sure it sadly won't be the last due to the nature of our industry (I have not been on Geraldo or Oprah yet ......... or Springer too). I agree that people take a quick glance and quickly assess as THE MAN taking on the poor innocent shopper who did not mean to tuck a notebook pc into his bag and forget to pay for it - LOL.

    Legal and Risk Management departments will develop strict policies / procedures when involved with the media or protest / anti-social group, to ensure that employees do not act irrationally or speak on behalf of their employer. Every company I have worked for has had strict guidelines on civil disturbances of the like which must be adhered to and wait for the provision of LEO's who are legally able to disburse a crowd.

    When I stated I was "taking a step back" I referred to assessing the situation as a Risk Manager (are these people peaceful or will they rope in a rent-a-crowd from the streets ?) before managing the situation as best as possible. A 30 second assessment can be the difference between a peaceful protest and something that is taken out of context by the rent-a-crowd mentality.

    When dealing with an arrest of an offender if not directly involved, it has been my task to manage the scene to ensure any members of the public are aware of the situation. I recall only 1 situation where a member of the public complained directly to me about a female SL until she found out I was the LPM and encouraged me to arrest her (not a good thing I know).

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  • Contact
    replied
    Originally posted by NRM_Oz View Post
    Key activist groups like GreenPeace and PETA as well as some religous groups will provoke fights or arguments in order to record your reactions. These files are compiled for other records and in the case of some radical church groups become a weapon of slander against an individual or their employer. I personally have never had any issues but insist on taking a back step just to assess the situation.
    Ok, so? I don't let other peoples actions dictate how I conduct myself, and you shouldn't either. All I can say is I hope they get me at a good angle. Your whole life's a stage, people are always watching and making judgements, even if it's not on film.

    I don't mean to come across as attacking, but consider this: If you need to take a step back just because someone might be filming you, you're probably making some mistakes when you're not "taking a step back."

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  • NRM_Oz
    replied
    Key activist groups like GreenPeace and PETA as well as some religous groups will provoke fights or arguments in order to record your reactions. These files are compiled for other records and in the case of some radical church groups become a weapon of slander against an individual or their employer. I personally have never had any issues but insist on taking a back step just to assess the situation.

    Leave a comment:


  • JB diligence
    replied
    Filming is prohibited on my property much like some of your's, I advise the perosn of such and most times ASK to see the pics, then have them delete them in front of me. Most times its an honest simple sight seeing or souvenir pic, but I'm not paid to believe everyone is honest 'till some one shows me a picture of what a bad guy, terrorist, corporate spy looks like...

    But nothing gives me the 'right' to seize someone else's personal property. So I fire off a report stating the facts about the pics, person taking them as well as who is with them, and vehicle info, this way they can be looked into by higher powers. Media types need approval from the company, so that's easy aside from occasional cockiness and staying out of the camera's view, they don't do me all up nice like TV types.

    As for the video's that get posted on the net, as much as they degrade Security types and Cops alike, I think we can also use them as a valuable learning tool in many cases.

    Always act like someone is filming/watching you...

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  • NRM_Oz
    replied
    We had few school groups come in without warning and of course some of these would take photographs against policies. When approached they were like `no1 told us we could not do it`. Hello ........ no1 knew you were coming here. A few tourists would also come in and take pics but it was a matter of just explaining - sorry we don't allow that. But how do you stop someone from making a phone call with the camera operating ?

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  • Contact
    replied
    Originally posted by CorpSec View Post
    It seems as though a fair amount of security personnel feel they can seize cameras and skateboards for some reason. I agree with N.A. that it is a real poor idea and one that in most cases cannot be legally defended.

    In previous jobs I have been told to arrest people and had to tell upper management that I wouldn't because it wasn't lawful. I have also been told to seize cameras and had to decline that request as well. If it is a digital camera, I have feed them a line of bull and gained voluntary compliance in getting them to delete the images.

    In the case of someone that management wanted arrested, I would make sure the police were en route and use some verbal gymnastics to stall the person until they arrived. Some people will stand there and answer your questions until the cops come, others know the drill and just walk, or run, away. If they do that, it is their business. I am not getting jammed up on a bogus arrest.
    Depends on the post orders. I can see the SO saying something along the lines of "Sir/Miss, you are not allowed to bring (item) inside the premesis, you may either leave the (item) with us and it will be returned to you upon your departure, or you may return it to your vehicle."

    If they willingly surrender the item, tag it, give them a receipt for it, and give it back to them. If they do not want to surrender the item, they can return it to their car. If they do not want to do either, it may be time to start considering your options as an officer.

    A couple days ago there was a medical emergency in my family and I went to the hospital and as I was going through the metal detectors I remembered I had my knife with me, and I asked them if this could go in, they said no, but politely offered me the two options I listed above. I told them to hold onto it, and they put my knife in a baggie, stapled a receipt to it, and gave me the duplicate which had an individualized recepit number to ensure I get the correct item back.

    Things are easy if people just act reasonable, and on private property, you are acting on behalf of the owner/shareholders/and the safety of every employee on the premisis. If your orders says they do not want XYZ on the premisis, XYZ does not come on the premisis without the police being notified and the person holding XYZ removed.
    Last edited by Contact; 11-04-2007, 09:08 AM.

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  • CorpSec
    replied
    It seems as though a fair amount of security personnel feel they can seize cameras and skateboards for some reason. I agree with N.A. that it is a real poor idea and one that in most cases cannot be legally defended.

    In previous jobs I have been told to arrest people and had to tell upper management that I wouldn't because it wasn't lawful. I have also been told to seize cameras and had to decline that request as well. If it is a digital camera, I have feed them a line of bull and gained voluntary compliance in getting them to delete the images.

    In the case of someone that management wanted arrested, I would make sure the police were en route and use some verbal gymnastics to stall the person until they arrived. Some people will stand there and answer your questions until the cops come, others know the drill and just walk, or run, away. If they do that, it is their business. I am not getting jammed up on a bogus arrest.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by OccamsRazor View Post
    Or using a room bug with an encrypted FHSS transmission in the 1.5-1.7 ghz range transmitting to a reciever in a high point (your attic?) that uploads the info to the end user (agent) with an encrypted, microwave burst transmission once an hour or less frequently.

    Not that I've ever seen anything like that.
    If you have someone generating 1.5-1.7 ghz traffic in your house, give up. You aren't getting rid of them.

    Leave a comment:


  • integrator97
    replied
    They watch you through your tv. (So says my brother, who's always saying we haven't been to the moon and the earth is flat. )

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Chaple View Post
    Ddog,
    Big Brother almost never uses radio bugs these days. Currently all they have to do is tap into your phone line and they can listen in on anything they need to hear w/o the need for those pesky radio transmissions.
    Or using a room bug with an encrypted FHSS transmission in the 1.5-1.7 ghz range transmitting to a reciever in a high point (your attic?) that uploads the info to the end user (agent) with an encrypted, microwave burst transmission once an hour or less frequently.

    Not that I've ever seen anything like that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Chaple
    replied
    Ddog,
    Big Brother almost never uses radio bugs these days. Currently all they have to do is tap into your phone line and they can listen in on anything they need to hear w/o the need for those pesky radio transmissions.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by Badge714 View Post
    About 6 months after the Mall of America opened, I was following a woman there as a favor for a PI friend of mine. I was stopped by two mall guards and a cop who told me the inside architecture and store signs of the mall were copywrited and therefore it was illegal to use my video camera in there. I told them I was just taking some video to email the folks back home. I apologized for being stupid and left the mall. They didn't ask to see what I had filmed or to erase the tape.
    That's pretty hilarious. Its not illegal to infringe on someone's copyright. That's a civil matter under the US Copyright Code. What is illegal (criminally) is to distribute infringing works.

    I know, they just told him something to make him leave. But, still. Who comes up with this stuff?

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  • Badge714
    replied
    About 6 months after the Mall of America opened, I was following a woman there as a favor for a PI friend of mine. I was stopped by two mall guards and a cop who told me the inside architecture and store signs of the mall were copywrited and therefore it was illegal to use my video camera in there. I told them I was just taking some video to email the folks back home. I apologized for being stupid and left the mall. They didn't ask to see what I had filmed or to erase the tape.

    Leave a comment:


  • NRM_Oz
    replied
    True and I recall a case of a female customer who reported that 2 men were following her and filming her with their mobile phones. When they came back into the store they repeated what they she reported to me and I approached both of them as she was escorted out a back door and suggested she leave the store and area asap. I spoke to the 2 gentlemen and asked them to come and speak with me in my officer (note I asked). I then asked them delete all footage off their mobile phones of her and asked for their details with the promise of no police (I couldn't anyway due to store BS) from me unless the victim reported the matter to them. A few weeks later they were caught by the police doing the same thing in a competitor's store when the police finally got back to me on the victims report.

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  • kingsman
    replied

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