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  • #16
    Originally posted by sgtnewby View Post
    MOA has 2 k9 teams currently, only explosive detection. With the planned expansion, they are looking at getting 5 more. Here at HCMC, they just posted the sign-up sheet for Taser cert classes which will be held next month. Finally....

    As for dogs, now that Tasers are out of the way, the hospital is going to start working on the dogs. In the next year (wheels turn very slow at County) we will be having a hospital K9 team from a hospital (St. Joseph Mercy) in Michigan will be coming down here for a week of demonstrations and trial run to guage staff perception.
    That is very cool. Hopefully with all the work you have put into it, if they decide to go with the idea, they will name you the handler.

    What dogs are you finding that security outfits use the most? I know some police canine handlers and they usually prefer a German Sherpard over the Belgian Malinois. I know Rottweilers have been used in the past in other states as well.

    My very first job was at a large boarding kennel for 4 years. I literally saw thousands of dogs come through and none where smarter than the Rottweilers.

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    • #17
      Good thread. Of course there are different levels and types of security. With dogs you just have to look at the overall cost of the dog vs the money saved by having the dog. In some situations it pays to have it, in others it doesn't. Sometimes a customer will want a dog only on a periodic basis (random quarterly drug searches etc) so for the security company that goes after that kind of work, it pays to have at least a "floating" k-9 unit.

      Getting and training the dog does not have to be as expensive as it sounds. You don't need a dog and training from europe. There are American breeders that specialize in breeding protection dogs. Likewise there are American companies that specialize in training dogs and handlers for protection, drug and bomb detection etc.
      formerly C&A

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      • #18
        Originally posted by CorpSec View Post
        That is very cool. Hopefully with all the work you have put into it, if they decide to go with the idea, they will name you the handler.

        What dogs are you finding that security outfits use the most? I know some police canine handlers and they usually prefer a German Sherpard over the Belgian Malinois. I know Rottweilers have been used in the past in other states as well.

        My very first job was at a large boarding kennel for 4 years. I literally saw thousands of dogs come through and none where smarter than the Rottweilers.
        It's a mix between the shephards and mals, but mostly shephards. One hospital in Michigan started with a rott as their first k9 at the administrations request, , but I guess it didn't work out as well as their shephards did.
        Apparently a HUGE cop wannabe...

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        • #19
          Originally posted by sgtnewby View Post
          It's a mix between the shephards and mals, but mostly shephards. One hospital in Michigan started with a rott as their first k9 at the administrations request, , but I guess it didn't work out as well as their shephards did.
          That is interesting. I have heard from police canine handlers that the Malinois tend to be harder to control than the Shepards. I don't think that the Rotts are nearly as popular over here as in Europe. The issues with the Shepards seem to be that bad breeding has lead to widespread hip problems with the breed.

          People love dogs and flock to them. I am sure that the staff reaction will be pretty positive. However, with the "diverse" population that HCMC serves, you will run into a lot of people that are absolutely terrified of dogs.

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          • #20
            We have always used shepherds with some gung-ho's wanting rotties and a few die-hards with dobermans. My exmate I mentioned spent $5k US training his dog and when he brought him to my place on his way to work (we both started different times), he brought the dog out of the car for a drink as it was summer. He bragged about the trainer and bet me $50.00 the dog takes only commands off him only. We went to the front of my house and he told the dog to drop and stay. I went 30 yds away and commanded the dog - KING, COME and used the hand signals. Dog walks to me as the owner is yelling DROP, DROP, DROP King. I repeat the commands as the dog walks to me as the owner is going ballistic.

            This goes on for 30 seconds as the dog follows me but not his owner and I relinquish to give the dog a welcome break. As my friend left, I suggested he ask for a refund on his $5k and that night at our shift, he refused to speak to me because he had been proven wrong ........ again.
            "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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            • #21
              Years ago, very early in my security career, I worked for a company that did the K-9 thing. They had their own kennel and training facility. The problem was they would field dogs and handlers with no training. You would come in to train on your off hours. So you spend six hours training with your dog during the day, then do a ten hour shift that night. Plus the dogs wouldn't stay with one handler. One night I went to get "my" dog, a German Shepard that was a good K-9, she knew a lot more than I did, which was a problem. I found a Rott puppy in her kennel. No supervisor available (another problem with that company) I worked without the dog that night. The next day I called the office and was told they switched dogs on me. Honestly the rott was a better dog for me since we were both sarting from scratch but everything was so poorly run that I quit after less than a month. That company was shut down by the IRS a few years later.
              "Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists. " Author Unknown

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              • #22
                When I got my first job with Midwest Patrol in Minneapolis in August 1977, we had a strike at ADM with grain elevators in four different locations. MWP rented guard dogs from Metropolitan Guard Dog Service for the strike. The dog handlers worked 12 hour shifts. We would meet Bernie from MGDS at a place called Crazy Louie's Surplus City in St. Paul to pick-up and drop off the dogs.
                The only qualifications for being a dog handler was a car and a willingness to transport the dog to and from the account. I did it because it raised my pay from $3.00 to $3.75 an hour!

                In 1978, I worked for an outfit called Park Detective Agency. They had dogs on patrol. The owner was a dog trainer for the Air Force, and he helped me train my German Shepard for security work. I got $1.00 an hour extra for accounts I used my dog at, mainly construction sites and a car dealership in the Uptown area of Minneapolis. I stayed with PDA until they bounced my paycheck 3 times. I went back to MWP in late 1979. Park finally went belly up in 1981, I think.
                "Striking terrific terror in the hearts of criminals everywhere" Since 1977.

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                • #23
                  ..

                  I would offer touse my pooch if it were at all feasible. I think that my full-blood Doberman that follows commands with or without a leash would be perfect. We tested him and his half-brother (half-rott/half-dobie) on Galveston Island during the drunken Kappa weekend one year. Both dogs stayed at my heels until I released them by verbal command. Neither one would so much as go to the bathroom without permission. I do not know who trained these dogs, but they are exceptional. I am going to find out who and send them my mastiff.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Badge714 View Post
                    When I got my first job with Midwest Patrol in Minneapolis in August 1977
                    A little off topic, but that Midwest Patrol patch brings back some memories. I started working for them in 1996, (my first security job at 18 years old) and we were still wearing that old black and white Midwest Patrol patch.
                    Apparently a HUGE cop wannabe...

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                    • #25
                      Whoa Cowboys I'm talking about going down a dark ally at night as a security guard not trying to find the mother load of Coke or bring down a shooter on the run. That's for the cops to do with their $80.000 dogs that bark in 5 different languages. The initial thing is that entering a dark area makes some S/Os nervous so why not use an at least well behaved dog that could smell someone in the ally giving early warning before you enter it. IE a good hunting dog aka family pet that will walk the beat on a leash with you then go home to the family when you do.

                      FYI in the city of Boston the most requested police dog is the gun seeking mutt. These dogs were trained to smell the combination of perspiration and freshly fired gun powder and are deployed at shootings. Owned and trained by the city.
                      THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
                      THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
                      http://www.boondocksaints.com/

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                      • #26
                        ...

                        IE a good hunting dog aka family pet that will walk the beat on a leash with you then go home to the family when you do.
                        Unfortunately, there is no way that any company would ever allow a guard to carry their own pet as back-up. Too bad, huh? It'd be nice.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by sgtnewby View Post
                          A little off topic, but that Midwest Patrol patch brings back some memories. I started working for them in 1996, (my first security job at 18 years old) and we were still wearing that old black and white Midwest Patrol patch.
                          I think that patch looks pretty sharp! IMHO!
                          " We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on one hand and of overwhelming force on the other" - General George C. Marshall

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                          • #28
                            The cost of the K-9 depends on a couple of things. What is the dog trained to do , and where are you getting the dog from? The more training, the more you will spend. Most places will include the training of the handler in with the price of the dog.
                            The K-9 is second to none when it comes to deterrence. Firearms, Tasers O.C. whatever, is marketed as such, but the reality of it is, they are predominantly reactive to the criminal element whereas the K-9 is a deterrent.

                            The K-9 can also be recalled after deployment. A bullet nor taser barbs can and if the K-9 is taken away from the handler it cannot be used against him/her or others, but the firearm and taser can.

                            As far as liability, a K-9 is no more a liability than the firearm, PR-24, Taser, O.C. etc. it all lies within the training. a K-9 will not repeat an act unless there is good memory experience and therefore reacts as it is trained. They cannot reason and cannot make mistakes that occur in human logic.

                            Therefore, there are no K-9 mistakes, only handler mistakes. Choosing the right handler is key to your liability issue!

                            E-6
                            K9...."Protect all who enter"

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by sgtnewby View Post
                              A little off topic, but that Midwest Patrol patch brings back some memories. I started working for them in 1996, (my first security job at 18 years old) and we were still wearing that old black and white Midwest Patrol patch.
                              I don't like our new patch at all. I have a supply of the old ones and sew them on whenever I get new shirts. I don't care much for our new badges either. I'm still wearing the badge I was issued in 1982.
                              Last edited by Badge714; 10-23-2007, 10:09 AM.
                              "Striking terrific terror in the hearts of criminals everywhere" Since 1977.

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