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  • Real Dogs not girlie little lap dogs.

    In all the ideas and weapons threads no one that I can find has offered up the subject of Guard dogs on the job. I'll get the word liability out of the way first as that seems to be the reason for most ideas going south. But other than that many of my friends work the projects armed and their post orders consist of ferreting out the stairwells and dark back allies for Hipes. When you turn a corner you never know what's lurking around it. My friends have told me that is the scariest part of their job. So why not train Shepherds not that they need it to do this for you. Ok as for the dirty word liability keep the dog muzzled? It will let you know if someone is hiding in wait for you. Kind of an early warning system for S/Os.
    THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
    THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
    http://www.boondocksaints.com/

  • #2
    Its not so much liability, as simple expense.

    Are the clients going to pay for a dog? Is your insurance going to drop you for deploying dogs?

    Where are you going to get the dog? They're expensive. Many, many dogs are unsuited for canine operations. Several articles and white papers have been written by various Police Canine organizations and associations, published in police periodicals.

    In all of them, the point of "the dogs we're getting are not suited for this job, and you've wasted money" come up. Good dogs cost money. Agencies that use the SPCA special may end up behind a lawsuit from the handler being attacked, an innocent being attacked, etc.

    Now, this said, I understand that dogs are deployed routinely in Canada. After all, it isn't like they get any weapons up there.

    But, then again. Even if you have a good dog... There's the expense of training what could be a 9 dollar an hour unarmed guard to be a handler. That's expensive. That means you're investing. And many companies don't want to invest in something that won't return a profit.

    Its money. I've seen Securitas guards who look like cops with un-muzzled canines roaming Chicago. But I also noticed that they were not wearing a Securitas badge, they were wearing some sort of Chicago Police or Metra Transit Police shield.

    It is most likely profitable for Securitas to provide police services to the Metra system, as special transit law enforcement officers. This offsets the investment in sending them to K-9 school (even if they were k-9 handlers as cops, they need to have their skills updated...), buying and training the detection dogs, arming them, etc.

    As I said, its the money.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #3
      "I understand that dogs are deployed routinely in Canada." Really? Where? Not in Montreal. About 20 years ago an armoured car company used them. They stopped when a robber held them up & said "let go of the dog & I shoot it, then you".

      My Belgian Shepherd guards my home.
      I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
      Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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      • #4
        There are less and less K9 teams now as most people do not wish to go to the hassle of kennelling a dog at home for no extra $$ each week. Guard dogs (running loose in yards are almost non-existent due to liability issues and those who work K9 teams are closely monitored by the police.

        Ironically, a K9 team gets more respect than 2 cops with Remington 870's across their chests, personally I would like to see less guns and more K9's in private security.
        "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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        • #5

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          • #6
            Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
            Its not so much liability, as simple expense.

            Are the clients going to pay for a dog? Is your insurance going to drop you for deploying dogs?

            Where are you going to get the dog? They're expensive. Many, many dogs are unsuited for canine operations. Several articles and white papers have been written by various Police Canine organizations and associations, published in police periodicals.

            In all of them, the point of "the dogs we're getting are not suited for this job, and you've wasted money" come up. Good dogs cost money. Agencies that use the SPCA special may end up behind a lawsuit from the handler being attacked, an innocent being attacked, etc.

            Now, this said, I understand that dogs are deployed routinely in Canada. After all, it isn't like they get any weapons up there.

            But, then again. Even if you have a good dog... There's the expense of training what could be a 9 dollar an hour unarmed guard to be a handler. That's expensive. That means you're investing. And many companies don't want to invest in something that won't return a profit.

            Its money. I've seen Securitas guards who look like cops with un-muzzled canines roaming Chicago. But I also noticed that they were not wearing a Securitas badge, they were wearing some sort of Chicago Police or Metra Transit Police shield.

            It is most likely profitable for Securitas to provide police services to the Metra system, as special transit law enforcement officers. This offsets the investment in sending them to K-9 school (even if they were k-9 handlers as cops, they need to have their skills updated...), buying and training the detection dogs, arming them, etc.

            As I said, its the money.
            As Nathan pointed out, there is ALOT of cost in having a trained dog. A trained dog is a HUGE investment, as you can't just have the dog going from one officer to the next. I mean really, how effective will the dog be. Plus, what if you spend the $4,500 on the dog and the handler decides he wants to quit two months later.
            "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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            • #7
              BadBoy is right...

              Spend all the money you want training the guard and the dog. When he realizes that he's getting the short end of the financial stick (as is given by most security companies) you just wasted a ton of money.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by BadBoynMD View Post
                As Nathan pointed out, there is ALOT of cost in having a trained dog. A trained dog is a HUGE investment, as you can't just have the dog going from one officer to the next. I mean really, how effective will the dog be. Plus, what if you spend the $4,500 on the dog and the handler decides he wants to quit two months later.

                That sounds like a deal...My old agency spent 30k on a dog and the deputy chosen as handler had to fly to Czechoslovakia (sp?) to meet and greet the dog and bring it home.

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                • #9
                  I think this should work. Not sure if it's exactly what you're looking for, but it's at least a thread about dogs.

                  http://forums.securityinfowatch.com/...ead.php?t=1182
                  Apparently a HUGE cop wannabe...

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dougo83 View Post
                    Spend all the money you want training the guard and the dog. When he realizes that he's getting the short end of the financial stick (as is given by most security companies) you just wasted a ton of money.
                    If you mean he (the guard/officer), I doubt that would be the reason to leave. I mean, come on there are TONS of people that will simply stay with a company, just because they are going to be allowed to carry a gun. Just imagine if the boss comes up and say "hey, we're sending you to K9 school". I could only imagine the reaction and ego rising. If anyone were to get a dog, i'd highly suggest it would be someone in upper management or with someone thats been on for several years. A dog is a HUGE investment.

                    That sounds like a deal...My old agency spent 30k on a dog and the deputy chosen as handler had to fly to Czechoslovakia (sp?) to meet and greet the dog and bring it home.
                    If you mean agency in the police sense, yes it's a bit more costly as most dogs cost around $3k or more. Then you're talking about paying for 3 months minimum for basic training (getting to know the dog, obedience, protecting the handler, biting, transporting, sit & watch). It can be quite costly, depending on what you want the dogs capabilities to be.
                    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BadBoynMD View Post
                      If you mean agency in the police sense, yes it's a bit more costly as most dogs cost around $3k or more. Then you're talking about paying for 3 months minimum for basic training (getting to know the dog, obedience, protecting the handler, biting, transporting, sit & watch). It can be quite costly, depending on what you want the dogs capabilities to be.
                      Yeah, all told, it cost them around $80k with the dog and airfare, vehicle outfitting and training, etc. This was when I was with the sheriff's dept.

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                      • #12
                        Like Nathan said, it all boils down to the money. Around here the only security outfit that has a canine is the Mall of America. I don't think that dog ever sees the light of day in the actual public areas of the mall. It is used in the dock/freight areas if I am not mistaken.

                        I do think there are a couple of free lance canine handlers out there that market their dogs to schools and companies wishing to do periodic drug detection sweeps.

                        If there is a need, the market will eventually respond to it. In the corporate security arena, I can see no need for a canine. Even though we have the money and the long term officers that aren't going anywhere, it would never fly in the corporate setting.

                        As far as the big county general hospital HCMC is concerned, they are one place where I could actually see a dog being of some use. However, they would be a lot better served in outfitting their officers with tasers prior to implementing a canine program.

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                        • #13
                          Not girlie dogs?

                          You know, the funny thing is, I work as a veterinary tech to augment my security work and I've found that the most vicious of all dog breeds aren't pits or rots or any other large "mean-looking" dogs, it's the dachshunds and chihuahuas! Short of getting 'em p*** drunk and training them to use weapons, those things are the meanest, most irritable lil' f***ers I've ever come across. Use THEM as K-9's! Oh sure their bites don't usually hurt, but they're small, fast, loud and as high-strung as an overworked postal worker on crank.
                          ‎"If you can't tolerate humor directed at you, you do not deserve to be taken seriously"

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CorpSec View Post
                            Like Nathan said, it all boils down to the money. Around here the only security outfit that has a canine is the Mall of America. I don't think that dog ever sees the light of day in the actual public areas of the mall. It is used in the dock/freight areas if I am not mistaken.

                            I do think there are a couple of free lance canine handlers out there that market their dogs to schools and companies wishing to do periodic drug detection sweeps.

                            If there is a need, the market will eventually respond to it. In the corporate security arena, I can see no need for a canine. Even though we have the money and the long term officers that aren't going anywhere, it would never fly in the corporate setting.

                            As far as the big county general hospital HCMC is concerned, they are one place where I could actually see a dog being of some use. However, they would be a lot better served in outfitting their officers with tasers prior to implementing a canine program.

                            MOA has 2 k9 teams currently, only explosive detection. With the planned expansion, they are looking at getting 5 more. Here at HCMC, they just posted the sign-up sheet for Taser cert classes which will be held next month. Finally....

                            As for dogs, now that Tasers are out of the way, the hospital is going to start working on the dogs. In the next year (wheels turn very slow at County) we will be having a hospital K9 team from a hospital (St. Joseph Mercy) in Michigan will be coming down here for a week of demonstrations and trial run to guage staff perception.
                            Apparently a HUGE cop wannabe...

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Taktiq View Post
                              Not girlie dogs?

                              You know, the funny thing is, I work as a veterinary tech to augment my security work and I've found that the most vicious of all dog breeds aren't pits or rots or any other large "mean-looking" dogs, it's the dachshunds and chihuahuas! Short of getting 'em p*** drunk and training them to use weapons, those things are the meanest, most irritable lil' f***ers I've ever come across. Use THEM as K-9's! Oh sure their bites don't usually hurt, but they're small, fast, loud and as high-strung as an overworked postal worker on crank.
                              Concealed Carry Chihuahuas!
                              Apparently a HUGE cop wannabe...

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