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Why O&R security does not work

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  • #16
    The people who should matter...

    I am a college student, in my case it would be the students and residents, etc. In the case of a hotel, it should be the patrons. In an apt complex, it should be the residents. In a hospital, it should be everyone inside the building. This is most certainly not the case in my experience. Unfortunately, the opinions of these folks are neglected when security is set up. I have yet to have anyone ask about our views on campus security, despite numerous break-ins and a few assaults here and there. The 'powers that be' do not give a dang about the people "security" is supposed to be protecting.

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    • #17
      Got it - thanks for the explanation. BTW, I would only santion O&R on a college campus as a supplement to campus police.
      Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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      • #18
        Mr. Security

        According to the definition of security in your sig. how does O&R ever look like that?

        Also, I am in the process of b*tching and complaining until we get campus police here. I am commissioned and will kind of be heading the game once the paperwork is done. Be prepared for millions of questions to all of y'all.

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        • #19
          Even the police can't totally protect us from danger - it's relative, just like my definition.
          Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Mr. Security View Post
            Even the police can't totally protect us from danger - it's relative, just like my definition.
            So we can all agree that O&R is the second part of your definition. "The feeling of well-being"

            Seems like it might be better to invest the money in a good cctv system if all they want is a witness. Of course then you would lose that "feeling of security".

            Originally posted by Mr. Security View Post
            Even if a company was STRICTLY O&R, it is better than nothing since it is well established that a presence will deter many from committing a crime simply because the risk of apprehension is greater when wrongdoing is witnessed. (Example: Neighborhood Watch programs)

            I respect your viewpoint and agree that such security has limited value. Still, it is here to stay.
            Doesn't seem like it worked very well for the old lady that was getting punched around.
            sigpic
            Rocket Science
            Making everything else look simple, since 1958.


            http://my.opera.com/integrator/blog/
            One Man's Opinion

            The Future. It isn't what it used to be.

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            • #21
              1 Xmas Eve I worked for the sake of the $$$ and was asked to supervise a team of security officers for a large upmarket pub (bar) in a very rich but residential area. We had some 5,000 party goers and all was well planned. My duties were to keep the exteranl S/O's patrolling the gardens and homes of the surrounding streets of midnight garden pee-ers and drunks.

              It was a visual presence for those leaving the pub and for those leaving the area but it was also what the residents expected to see around - bright green safety shirt S/O's giving a visual presence.
              "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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              • #22
                In my (albeit limited) experience, the effectiveness of O & R security is directly relative to the public's misconception of this industry

                The most 'troublesome' individuals I've encountered were busy telling me that I legally can't touch them (armchair lawyers)... and while that MAY be the policy of some security providers, Section 458 of the Victorian Crimes Act 1958 clearly states otherwise...

                Sadly whilst the Education system is busy teaching tomorrow's citizens their rights, they are neglecting to tutor them of their obligations to others & society as a whole (sadly I don't see this changing)
                "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

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                • #23
                  I'm new to the forum, and happen to be employed by a "warm body" company. My supervisor has stressed to me numerous times, and I in turn to my officers, that our job is to "observe and report only." For me, though, that doesn't mean I'm going to watch a crime happen and twiddle my thumbs while waiting for the police. Especially something like the article previously referenced. While I can't carry any weapons (including pepper spray and pocket knives), I can make lots of noise, and more importantly have a lot of training in both verbal and physical intervention/deescalation, and physical restraint. In fact, I once got in trouble at a previous job for restraining a kid who was trying to hurt himself, kick anyone in reach, and strip naked in public . I did a number of fully legit holds as he moved around and slammed me into walls. But because the company did not train in physical intervention, I was disciplined.

                  I'd do it again in a heartbeat, screw the policy.
                  That's a direct quote. Not word for word, but the gist of it.

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                  • #24
                    I just don't get it

                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Mr. Security
                    Even the police can't totally protect us from danger - it's relative, just like my definition.

                    So we can all agree that O&R is the second part of your definition. "The feeling of well-being"
                    Where is the 'feeling' of well-being? I see O&R guards and I don't think 'Oh, good, someone to call 911 if I get attacked' I think, 'Oh, wow, designated 911 punchers.' However, if I see a guard with a weapon, who I know is hired to be active, I feel safer. Does this make sense?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by dougo83 View Post
                      Where is the 'feeling' of well-being?
                      In the ignorance of what security actually do... the difference is you have knowledge of the industry and can identify 'designated 911 punchers' (as you call them) from pro-active security, they (the general public) cannot and so they go on with their business blissfully ignorant of the fact that this O&R security can't/won't physically intervene should they require assistance
                      "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by integrator97 View Post
                        So we can all agree that O&R is the second part of your definition. "The feeling of well-being"
                        Cute....





                        Originally posted by integrator97 View Post
                        Doesn't seem like it worked very well for the old lady that was getting punched around.
                        Thanks for stating the obvious. Like I said, O&R is not for every site.
                        Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                        • #27
                          Hello again,

                          I have been away for a while and am now back in the mix. We have O &R security that covers my post at night. They are armed but routinely refuse to protect staff and patients. We are in the middle of the ghetto and a county facility. We are all armed in my dept and routinely act and enforce alws and regulations due to our policy and us being couty. There was an incident a few days ago where there was a mentally ill man threatening staff and the guards ( i refuse to call them officers) stood by and the police had to send in 6 officers to deal with the situation./ one guard left because it was too much. I feel O & R belongs at a factory or low activity site not in the field.
                          Robert
                          Here endith the lesson

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by dougo83 View Post
                            Where is the 'feeling' of well-being? I see O&R guards and I don't think 'Oh, good, someone to call 911 if I get attacked' I think, 'Oh, wow, designated 911 punchers.' However, if I see a guard with a weapon, who I know is hired to be active, I feel safer. Does this make sense?
                            Just because you "think" a certain way doesn't mean that it is right. I work at an office site where O&R is just fine. We have access control and as long as you don't admit a bad guy, there is no problem.

                            It's clear that you don't like O&R security - we got that from you already. Nevertheless, O&R will continue to be a part of the security industry whether you like it or not.
                            Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                            • #29
                              Ok

                              Just because you "think" a certain way doesn't mean that it is right. I work at an office site where O&R is just fine. We have access control and as long as you don't admit a bad guy, there is no problem.

                              It's clear that you don't like O&R security - we got that from you already. Nevertheless, O&R will continue to be a part of the security industry whether you like it or not.
                              My post was not directed at you. If my questions bother and personal experiences bother you, ignore my posts. Okey dokey?

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                              • #30
                                No problem, smokey.
                                Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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