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Making "stops" or "contact" via vehicle.

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  • #31
    tricky question

    From the perspective that it is bad to follow anyone at any time on a public road:

    Lets say you are a mobile (regional) supervisor responsible for dozens of separate sites across a few counties (some with guards, some without) and you are also responsible for the mobile patrol, who's job it is to patrol each of sites that don't have a guard at them. Your mobile patrol officer calls you and says there is vehicle following HIM, the vehicle is definitely not police, and has followed them to several sites so far. You ask the S/O his eta for a specific location, then hide along the road to that location. Your S/O and the guy following him pass you, you pull out as inconspicuously as possible and follow the guy that is following your guy. Getting plate number, vehicle description etc.

    Now would you consider your following of that other guy a chase? Would you say that this is illegal as well?

    The last time this happened, two months ago, my S/O was going up a private one lane road leading to his next site, the guy followed him up that road, and I followed the guy up that road. The only way to get out is to either turn around inside the site, or to back out. So the guy was effectively blocked in by my S/O in front and myself in back.

    Before I say what happened, do you think it is wrong or "illegal" to have blocked the guy in?

    How it turned out- The guy ended up being a plainclothes investigator for the company doing quality control. We got a chuckle out of busting the guy trying to bust us. Then again, with these guys, he might have been just testing to how we react to people following the mobile patrol units because- as I said- it does occasionally happen.
    formerly C&A

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    • #32
      Trick Question

      It becomes a chase once the person tries to evade you. (Following someone to long could be stalking) Blocking someone in would probably be a crime unless you witnessed a felony and were making a citizen's arrest. Otherwise, call the police and let them handle it.
      Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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      • #33
        Like Mr. Security said, the opinion of counsel should be sought. simply saying "well no one/the police ever said anything about it before" is a really bad justification. "No one ever told me not to" isn't a defense in court.

        Me personally, No way in hell you'd get me to stop someone on a public street if I were still a private security officer even it was legal , because without some form of qualified immunity all you are doing is opening yourself up to some career ending liabilities.
        ~Black Caesar~
        Corbier's Commandos

        " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

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        • #34
          They need to flee before it was a pursuit. Working in a business park I often drove a friend home from the same company who finished 30 minutes after me but was 3 miles way in another building. I drove down the public road to wait outside his building 1 night and was lit up by some orange lights behind me. I thought it was a street sweeper, or garbage, or break down, or tow trucker or anything else but security patrol. I kept driving as I made the carpark of the friend's building.

          I walk to the entrance and 2 males approach me from the car and begin to abuse me for not stopping when they flashed me. I asked if I had dropped anything or had something wrong with my car and they abuse me again for not stopping when they ordered me to stop. I asked them if they knew it ws a public road and if they were police in a disguise as my friend walks out completing his shift. He had seen most of it on CCTV and informed me it was recording (they do this for all visitors) after I had pressed the call button.

          He spots a passing Police Car and quickly flags them down (high crime area) and has them explain the law to these clowns who still insist they can make traffic stops. A week later all reports are filed and the Estate Manager terminates the contract as this was 1 of many complaints about them making traffic stops on a public road.
          "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Black Caesar View Post
            Like Mr. Security said, the opinion of counsel should be sought. simply saying "well no one/the police ever said anything about it before" is a really bad justification. "No one ever told me not to" isn't a defense in court.
            One thing I will say is that my employer goes to bat for us. No need to be more specific than that.
            formerly C&A

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            • #36
              I am going to default everything I have just said to this position:

              Don't ever pull anyone over outside your legal area of responsibility.

              1. Personal safety
              2. The Law
              3. Personal civil liability
              4. Post Orders

              There's the prioritized litmus test for any action that any S/O is uncertain of.

              And NEVER make public (like posting on a public forum) any action you do that others may consider uncertain, and which may not pass the above litmus test of other security officers, security management, or owners of security companies.
              formerly C&A

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              • #37
                Excuse me but I feel this way about this discussion. If a security officer wants to do traffic stops, then he should quit security, and complete the required process to become a peace officer.
                Murphy was an optomist.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by jeff194307 View Post
                  Excuse me but I feel this way about this discussion. If a security officer wants to do traffic stops, then he should quit security, and complete the required process to become a peace officer.
                  Then don't do security in places like SC, (where security officers have the same statutory power as a deputy sheriff to include traffic stops) or many gated communities throughout the country. (one here does it, they actually run radar and will issue HOA tickets. Don't pay lose your driving privileges on their property.)

                  There is a time and place for Security to do traffic stops. It's beginning to happen more and more, Welcome to the 21st century.
                  SecurityProfessional is Back up and running!

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by jeff194307 View Post
                    Excuse me but I feel this way about this discussion. If a security officer wants to do traffic stops, then he should quit security, and complete the required process to become a peace officer.
                    Jeff~
                    Throughout the Country, Private Officers are doing these types of things more and more. Hang on sir! Thngs will change.

                    Be Safe,

                    Hank
                    " We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on one hand and of overwhelming force on the other" - General George C. Marshall

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by gcmc security part 2 View Post
                      Then don't do security in places like SC, (where security officers have the same statutory power as a deputy sheriff to include traffic stops) or many gated communities throughout the country. (one here does it, they actually run radar and will issue HOA tickets. Don't pay lose your driving privileges on their property.)

                      There is a time and place for Security to do traffic stops. It's beginning to happen more and more, Welcome to the 21st century.
                      Bear with me, but are you saying that I could be driving on a public road in SC and a s/o could legally stop me for a moving violation?
                      Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Mr. Security View Post
                        Bear with me, but are you saying that I could be driving on a public road in SC and a s/o could legally stop me for a moving violation?
                        Oops let me clarify, SOs in SC have all the authority of a Deputy Sheriff by statute, while on duty and on the property they are responsible for. So if you are driving in a neighborhood (gated or not), mall, hospital, etc, yes they can legally stop you by using red and blue lights, (maybe it's just blue have to double check) and write you a state uniform citation. Same exact ticket that a LEO will write you.

                        The sad part is that in SC the state requires 4 hours of training for an unarmed officer and an additional 4 hours for an armed officer.
                        SecurityProfessional is Back up and running!

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                        • #42
                          Ok. That makes sense - thanks for the clarification.
                          Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by gcmc security part 2 View Post
                            Oops let me clarify, SOs in SC have all the authority of a Deputy Sheriff by statute, while on duty and on the property they are responsible for. So if you are driving in a neighborhood (gated or not), mall, hospital, etc, yes they can legally stop you by using red and blue lights, (maybe it's just blue have to double check) and write you a state uniform citation. Same exact ticket that a LEO will write you.

                            The sad part is that in SC the state requires 4 hours of training for an unarmed officer and an additional 4 hours for an armed officer.
                            Don't quote me 100%, but I think you have to have a letter from the client, written to SLED as to why you need red and blues. I suppose they are looking for one of your contractual agreements being running traffic.
                            "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by BadBoynMD View Post
                              Don't quote me 100%, but I think you have to have a letter from the client, written to SLED as to why you need red and blues. I suppose they are looking for one of your contractual agreements being running traffic.
                              Yes,

                              All it takes is the client to request it to SLED, from what I understand it's not that difficult to obtain. One of my officers worked for a company up there for years and they had a few clients that had it.
                              SecurityProfessional is Back up and running!

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Hank1 View Post
                                Jeff~
                                Throughout the Country, Private Officers are doing these types of things more and more. Hang on sir! Thngs will change.

                                Be Safe,

                                Hank
                                The growing trend is more security officers and less police officers. It is natural considering the trend towards private ownership of formerly public areas, and in many cases private leasing of public areas. The pattern is more affluent people moving to communities guarded by private security and less affluent people having no choice but to live in communities patrolled by the police. You call 9-11 and the police are absolutely not legally liable to protect you from what you are calling about, or even to respond to the call. Private security is absolutely liable to protect you from what you are calling about.
                                formerly C&A

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