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  • Making "stops" or "contact" via vehicle.

    I think this was discussed one or twice before but can't seem to find the threads. At the place of duty you work can you do stops on those acting suspicious or violating security or safety issues? As I understand Florida law (which gives me a headache) for the most part appears to show -or is that not show- only those representing a place of business or operation conducted off of normal public access. Namely I presume government facilitates weather it be county, city or state. Or places off the "beaten" patch in regards to areas like construction sites and enclosed complexes. I know a few private living communities security personnel actually do pull overs. Which the residents want. I wonder what legal (or illegal) issues this would develop?
    My views, opinions and statements are my own. They are not of my company, affiliates or coworkers.

    -Being bagger at Publix has more respect these days

    -It's just a job kid deal with it

    -The industry needs to do one of two things; stop fiddling with the thin line and go forward or go back to that way it was. A flashlight in one hand and your set of keys in the other

  • #2
    Any policy allowing you to stop a moving vehicle with a security vehicle on private property should be reviewed by counsel before being implemented. Besides the danger involved, it is fraught with legal pitfalls. I would rather have a checkpoint as the vehicle exits to address any client policy violations with appropriate notification that all vehicles and operators/passengers may be stopped and searched if they enter the property.
    Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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    • #3
      As Mr. Security pointed out, legal counsel should be contacted in reference to said subject. However, my belief is that on private property (apartment complexes, construction sites, shopping malls, etc.) pulling traffic is not considered illegal, as it's "private property". However, keep in mind that besides domestics, traffic stops are EXTREMELY dangerous.
      "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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      • #4
        Very aware of the dangers. Before I took a different path in police work I did the street for 7 years. My work we can approach parked vehicles per the client. Weather in foot or patrol. And determine the patrons purpose for being where, why and so on. For the time being we have a back up SO. As for stops that has yet to be determined since most of those we check are stationary. But we have rolled up on people and lit them up to let them know who we are. We work on state property. And it's considered privileged access and not public like a parking lot or something to that nature. We have not done any rolling stops. But we have followed people round at a distance that are acting up or suspicious to let them know we are around.
        My views, opinions and statements are my own. They are not of my company, affiliates or coworkers.

        -Being bagger at Publix has more respect these days

        -It's just a job kid deal with it

        -The industry needs to do one of two things; stop fiddling with the thin line and go forward or go back to that way it was. A flashlight in one hand and your set of keys in the other

        Comment


        • #5
          Anyone entering the property I'm assigned to is subject to a resonable search which includes stopping them as they are driving. Plant speed limit is 12MPH. Bust that and you are getting stopped for sure. That's why I perfer industrial settings. None of this public vs private confusion.
          Last edited by EMTGuard; 10-14-2007, 05:07 PM.
          Hospital Security Officer

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          • #6
            Originally posted by EMTGuard View Post
            Anyone entering the property I'm assigned to is subject to a resonable search which includes stopping them as they are driving. Plant speed limit is 12MPH. Bust that and you are getting stopped for sure. That's why I perfer industrial settings. None of this public vs private confusion.
            Just wondering... why the oddball speed limit? Why not 15 or 10?

            I remember going to a Casino once where the speed limits were 21, I always thought that to be really weird.
            "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
            "The Curve" 1998

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            • #7
              Originally posted by BHR Lawson View Post
              I remember going to a Casino once where the speed limits were 21, I always thought that to be really weird.
              Black Jack played there?
              Maybe the legal age to enter?
              Either make more sense to me than 12 MPH, but I am all for slowing down.
              Last edited by Eric; 10-14-2007, 05:25 PM.
              Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted.
              Groucho Marx

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              • #8
                Black Jack and a billion other games.
                "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                "The Curve" 1998

                Comment


                • #9
                  in AZ security can do anything a private citizen can do. This includes approaching people to find what their business is, asking whatever questions you may want, and being an ass if you want (don't recommend that one though). Also most security are contracted by the management as an agent of management. This allows the security to speak or take actions on behalf of the management such as trespassing someone from property and so on.

                  I work apt complexes and we do what is called residency verifications. Basically contacting people walking around property, breaking community policies, etc to make sure they live there or are visiting a resident. they have no obligation to comply but most people are stupid and most people don't want to get trespassed from the property if they are visiting. we usually ask for id, apt living in or visitng, if visiting ask what the resident's name is, and if need be escorting residents/guests to the apt to verify for sure. depending on the reason for contact, time, resident/non-resident status, or if anything raises our suspicions we can do a consent search if we want for drugs and weapons. here in AZ we have a thing called crime free multi-housing communities. Basically it means tenants sign special crime-free leases which state that if they are involved in any criminal activity, or their guests are, regardless if they know about it, the tenant can be evicted.

                  i usually only do vehicle contacts if I am with a partner.

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                  • #10
                    We are responsible for nearly 100 separate sites across 3 counties and regularly stop/contact many many people on company property and the area/roads immediately surrounding the property. Never had a problem where the law is concerned.
                    formerly C&A

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BHR Lawson View Post
                      Just wondering... why the oddball speed limit? Why not 15 or 10?

                      I remember going to a Casino once where the speed limits were 21, I always thought that to be really weird.
                      At a NASA installation the is a sign near a rocket motor testing site that reads 'Speed Limit - 186,000 miles per second' - then in larger print on the bottom of the sign it says 'Not Really'.
                      Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                      Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                      Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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                      • #12
                        That's cute. I want one



                        Out here we have a funny sign. There is a stretch of road leaving the city going into the county. The SL is 50mph, but people always slow down to about 35-40 for no apparent reason (its a PITA when Im trying to do 65-70 )

                        Our limit signs usually read like this



                        There is a guy who owns highway-side property who has put up his own street sign that looks just like that but it reads...

                        "It's Still
                        50
                        Giddy' up!"
                        "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                        "The Curve" 1998

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by cocknaces View Post
                          We are responsible for nearly 100 separate sites across 3 counties and regularly stop/contact many many people on company property and the area/roads immediately surrounding the property. Never had a problem where the law is concerned.
                          No cop has ever seen you guys on a 'Traffic Stop' and stopped and not so much hasked if your ok, let alone what the hell is going on?

                          Do you guys have a dispatch who records the stop location, vehicle, reason for stop-ya know in case it goes sideways on ya?

                          Aside from legal complications the sole reason I don't agree security doing traffic stops is this. You really never know when it can go sideways on you, and when it does who the hell knows where or who your out with.

                          Then there's that whole unlawful detention thing as well.
                          ~Super Ninja Sniper~
                          Corbier's Commandos

                          Nemo me impune lacessit

                          Grammical and Spelling errors may occur form time to time. Yoov bin worned

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ValleyOne View Post
                            No cop has ever seen you guys on a 'Traffic Stop' and stopped and not so much hasked if your ok, let alone what the hell is going on?
                            Honestly, I have never seen a single police officer during any stop I've ever made. AFTER they are called is when we see the police. If we don't feel safe making the stop, or the person is evasive and we have good reason, we'll just call the police.

                            Do you guys have a dispatch who records the stop location, vehicle, reason for stop-ya know in case it goes sideways on ya?
                            Yep. Always have to call dispatch before making contact on anything serious (there is a procedure). Dispatch will call the supervisor, the supervisor will call the S/O. Also, guards have to call in every half hour, and mobile patrol units call in upon arrive and departure from every site they hit. Someone doesn't call 30 minutes from their last call, dispatch calls THEM. If they can't be reached, dispatch will call us (the supervisor on duty) and we will have them dispatch the next closest mobile patrol unit to the location, will head to the location ourselves and will make the determination of whether or not to ask for police assistance. It is up to the S/O to contact or not. Often we will get back up before making the contact or just call the police.

                            Aside from legal complications the sole reason I don't agree security doing traffic stops is this. You really never know when it can go sideways on you, and when it does who the hell knows where or who your out with.
                            See above.

                            Then there's that whole unlawful detention thing as well.
                            We drill that off-property stops are purely "friendly", never giving the impression that someone can't leave if they want. The idea is "occupy" (entertain, ask off-topic questions like directions, small talk etc) while observing and taking as much information in as possible until the police arrive. If the police were not called because no law was broken but their is suspicion of some threat to our customers property or interests, the stop is all about collecting information until either all the information you want is collected or the person decides to leave.

                            On property stops- trespassers- are about the same, with the exception that the police are definitely on their way and the person pretty much knows they are f'd when they see you so there is no point is playing stupid. Still no physical restraint, but making it as inconvenient as possible for them to leave before the police get there (ie finding someone on a property where the barbed wire fence was cut, its easy enough to block the hole in the fence with the truck and not help them by opening the locked gate.)
                            formerly C&A

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                            • #15
                              Wait.... you are doing traffic stops off your property? How can you do that and make it seem friendly? When I see lights go on behind me I assume I am not free to leave, no matter how friendly the officer is.
                              "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                              "The Curve" 1998

                              Comment

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