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Should I only use a holster with a retention device?

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  • Should I only use a holster with a retention device?

    Here is an interesting scenario. I do in house security at a check cashing store and it is an armed position. I have always used the same belt holster with a retention strap. When I'm off duty one of my carry holsters is Fobus paddle holster; because it lacks a retention device (other than the passive retention system advertised by Fobus) I use it for concealed carry. Anyway, with winter coming up, I will be wearing a jacket and/or coat that covers up my duty belt. Since my duty belt would not be visible, I'm considering using the Fobus (for quicker access) any time I'm wearing the coat or jacket. Do any of you think this is a good idea? Pros and cons would be appreciated.

  • #2
    Well, first, does your state law allow you to conceal as a security person? Some do, some don't.

    If you are in uniform, I would suggest a jacket slot holster. Fobus holsters are not designed to be paraded about. People know you are armed, and there are videos roaming the internet now demonstrating how easy it is to rip a fobus holster off its paddle. (Its plastic, come on, folks, its not that hard.)
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #3
      Originally posted by tattedupboy View Post
      Here is an interesting scenario. I do in house security at a check cashing store and it is an armed position. I have always used the same belt holster with a retention strap. When I'm off duty one of my carry holsters is Fobus paddle holster; because it lacks a retention device (other than the passive retention system advertised by Fobus) I use it for concealed carry. Anyway, with winter coming up, I will be wearing a jacket and/or coat that covers up my duty belt. Since my duty belt would not be visible, I'm considering using the Fobus (for quicker access) any time I'm wearing the coat or jacket. Do any of you think this is a good idea? Pros and cons would be appreciated.
      First, whether you are on or off-duty, you should be using a holster with at least a level 2 retention (I always strongly suggest a level 3 if you happen to be working solo). Just because you are not in a uniform, does not make you any less vulnerable to a gun grab. Sure, it may be concealed, but as soon as they know that you have a weapon on, they will go after it. Then again, I have never, ever been a fan of the Fobus holsters. I would much rather put my weapon in my waistband ala-Mel Gibson (in Lethal Weapon) style.

      Second, if you are armed and uniformed, you should be purchasing a jacket with the side zippers that allow easy access to your weapon. Besides, the mere visible presence of that weapon on your hip can deter a robbery. I would strongly advise you not utilize a Fobus holster for duty wear. The downside to this is a simple one... Death.
      "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

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      • #4
        Get a quality level 3 holster and practice, practice, practice. There are a few places and officers can get by on the cheap, a holster is not one of them.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
          Well, first, does your state law allow you to conceal as a security person? Some do, some don't.

          If you are in uniform, I would suggest a jacket slot holster. Fobus holsters are not designed to be paraded about. People know you are armed, and there are videos roaming the internet now demonstrating how easy it is to rip a fobus holster off its paddle. (Its plastic, come on, folks, its not that hard.)
          Yes, my state allows it. My reasoning for considering this was if I'm wearing the Fobus underneath my jacket, it can't be seen, and thus, retention would actually be enhanced. After all, BGs won't try to grab for something they can't see, will they? I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to be a smartass, I just want everyone to try to understand what I'm thinking.
          Or would it simply be better to just stick with the holster with the retention device, whether I'm wearing my jacket or not, and whether my weapon can be seen or not?

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          • #6
            Muscle memory being everything, I do everything the same way everytime. I am a left handed user, so my firearm is on my left. Regardless if I'm on duty or not (open carry/concealed carry). I have seen officers carry their off -duty firearm differently than when they are on-duty (drives me crazy). If your open carry duty weapon has a retention device, it should mirror the concealed carry too! Just my thoughts.....

            And I despise Fobus holsters (obviously, my opinion).

            Be safe,

            Hank
            " We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on one hand and of overwhelming force on the other" - General George C. Marshall

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            • #7
              Fobus holsters are an invitation to serious trouble. Retension level-3 should be your goal. Don't get fancy and have one for duty and one for CCW that have different operating characteristics.
              And as previously recommended, practice, practice and practice until it becomes second nature.
              Enjoy the day,
              Bill

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              • #8
                I carried a level 1 Jordan-style holster for many years. I switched to a level 2 a few years ago because the company made me.
                I don't like the Fobus holsters either. But then I don't like plastic or nylon anything. Theres nothing like real leather. My duty belt is 15 years old and still looks great. I've seen 3 year old nylon rigs that look like crap already.
                "Striking terrific terror in the hearts of criminals everywhere" Since 1977.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by tattedupboy View Post
                  Here is an interesting scenario. I do in house security at a check cashing store and it is an armed position. I have always used the same belt holster with a retention strap. When I'm off duty one of my carry holsters is Fobus paddle holster; because it lacks a retention device (other than the passive retention system advertised by Fobus) I use it for concealed carry. Anyway, with winter coming up, I will be wearing a jacket and/or coat that covers up my duty belt. Since my duty belt would not be visible, I'm considering using the Fobus (for quicker access) any time I'm wearing the coat or jacket. Do any of you think this is a good idea? Pros and cons would be appreciated.
                  This is a diaster ready to happen, IMHO. It's pretty simple, if you're IN uniform, your firearm shouldn't be concealed by a jacket, sweater, raincoat, etc at ANYtime. You're working a venue that has a very large sum of money concealed in a back room (hopefully in a vault of some kind). If the place gets robbed, and he decides to shoot, you're reaction time is now delayed, because the jacket, sweater, raincoat, etc was in the freaking way. Me personally, I HATE jackets and coats when I am working uniformed. So, this is what I, and a few other police officers that I know do. If you see me in a jacket or a coat..you know it's pretty darn cold outside. I wear a undershirt (just use to it I guess), turtleneck, vest, commando sweater and finally my uniform shirt. Keeps me pretty warm, and doesn't burn me up when indoors, unless someone has the heat on 90.

                  As for holsters, at MINIMUM a level 2 holster, but as others have stated a level 3 or even 4 is HIGHLY recommended. Safariland IMHO, makes awesome duty holsters, along with Uncle Mikes and Blackhawk. If you (and let's hope you do) decide to purchase a new holster, please PRACTICE, PRACTICE and PRACTICE before you use it for duty. I mean this IS your life we are talking about, and none of us want to read about how things COULD have been different only IF you hadn't had your jacket in the way.
                  "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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                  • #10
                    Well, all I can say is that I'm glad I posted this thread first, because I was actually going to go through with this idea, but you guys have convinced me not to. That being said, I guess my next question is does anyone know of any Level II or level III holsters available for a 9 mm Hi Point? Yes, yes, I know that this isn't exactly the ideal duty weapon, but it was all I could afford. Also, please don't tell me to purchase a new, better weapon, because realistically, I can't afford anything else and probably won't be able to for at least six months.

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                    • #11
                      a 9 mm Hi Point? Yes, yes, I know that this isn't exactly the ideal duty weapon, but it was all I could afford.
                      So, why not wait till you can afford a proper duty weapon?
                      "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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                      • #12
                        Check Safariland.com, they may make a holster for the hi-point.
                        Some Kind of Commando Leader

                        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BadBoynMD View Post
                          So, why not wait till you can afford a proper duty weapon?
                          Because I can't. A high end model is simply not an option for me right now. I want to be able to do my job with the best firearms and holsters available, but I'd like to think that the with the firearm and holster I now have, I have done a pretty damn good job. Having a high end firearm and holster won't make a bad security officer good, and having a low quality firearm and holster won't make a good security officer bad.

                          That being said, I need a firearm to do my job; a Hi Point is better than no gun at all, and since I needed a gun sooner rather than later, I purchased it.

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                          • #14
                            [QUOTE That being said, I need a firearm to do my job; a Hi Point is better than no gun at all, and since I needed a gun sooner rather than later, I purchased it.[/QUOTE]

                            I think a good used name-brand revolver would have been a better choice. Maybe it doesn't hold a zillion bullets, but it is 99.99% reliable. I've carried the same Model 28 S&W for 25+ years and still shoot 100% qualifying every year. I've never felt at a disadvantage with my good old .357.
                            "Striking terrific terror in the hearts of criminals everywhere" Since 1977.

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                            • #15
                              ^^^ Agreed.

                              If I were in a spot and needed a gun quick like and didn't have the cash to throw down on a "High End" pistol I would make a trip down to Ye Ole Pawn Shoppe and get a damn good revolver. Or anyother gun store.

                              Basically, the truth in the matter is that you can't beat a good gun. With a revolver you DON"T have to worry about little annoyances like Jams and the such.

                              I know a s/o who carried a Colt Python (I think it was a Python) for a long enough has he had to. When he had the cash set aside, he went and got himself a nice pistol.

                              Besides, don't most companies disapprove of crappy guns, or do they even care?

                              I wouldn't allow anything below the top five or so. (in my head that'd be 1)S&W 2) Beretta 3) Sig 4)Glock (eventhough I hate 'em) 5) Springfield and the like) Definitely only in 9mm or .40
                              ~Super Ninja Sniper~
                              Corbier's Commandos

                              Nemo me impune lacessit

                              Grammical and Spelling errors may occur form time to time. Yoov bin worned

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