Opinions wanted

[Ironskull]

Hi guys and gals. I have a question I want to ask and get some opinions on. First off, I am a retired deputy sheriff with a CCW and am now doing security guard work part time for a local company. My oldest son and I have both been guarding a bank inside a grocery store in a part of town with a very high crime rate. There have been several shootings and the bank we have has been robbed twice. We have been carrying concealed for a long time but we also figured that if we were visible armed, it would be a deterrent. Before we started carrying openly, we got the OK from our boss, then the bank manager and then the grocery store manager. Then the head of the store's loss prevention got all upset and called the bank manager and said we could not be armed. We said OK and got the OK to be concealed again. Then last week I got hauled into the office by the bank manager and she said that now their loss prevention decided we could carry NO weapons of any kind, even our spray, which the store's loss prevention carries. I explained to the bank manager that we were all licensed to carry concealed weapons and for our own safety we would still carry concealed. She said we could not. I also explained my status as a retired officer and I carry everywhere and would not stop carrying. Next thing I know, a letter was hand delivered by her to my boss stating we were not to carry any weapons of any kind and if we were caught carrying, our contract to guard the bank would be terminated on the spot. I personally refuse to work in that environment. We were also told that if something happened at the bank, we were to simply walk away and be an "expert witness" which is kind of hard if we walk away. I questioned why we were even there if we were to do nothing. I was told we were to be a deterrent and expert witness. What is everyone's opinion?? Thanks.

Jack

[mh892]

We were also told that if something happened at the bank, we were to simply walk away and be an "expert witness" which is kind of hard if we walk away. I questioned why we were even there if we were to do nothing. I was told we were to be a deterrent and expert witness. What is everyone's opinion?? Thanks.

Jack[/QUOTE]

Tell Loss Prevention he/she needs to stand in for you, unarmed, untill you return. There ARE other jobs out there.

[Taktiq]

We were also told that if something happened at the bank, we were to simply walk away and be an "expert witness" which is kind of hard if we walk away. I questioned why we were even there if we were to do nothing. I was told we were to be a deterrent and expert witness. What is everyone's opinion?? Thanks.

I can hear it now...
The bank: "Why didn't you do something to stop them?!"

You: "I'm sorry, I was too busy being such an expert witness and filling out the incident report for you, that I forgot to confront the guy with the gun while unarmed. I swear I'll do a better job deterring next time."

[Charger]

^ +1

These LPs sound like they need to go pound sand. Our company guards a lot of banks, and it's mandated that we be armed to do so. Bank robberies are serious business, and if these LPs don't agree then they need to do some research or something.

If I were you, I'd find a different site to work. Personally, I would absolutely refuse to guard a bank with no weapon. Expert witness my rear end... Who do you think the first person to get shot in a robbery is going to be?

I'm curious though... You said you're working for a contract company, right? What is THEIR stance on this? I've worked for companies in the past that bend over backwards for the client in order to keep the contract, and I WON'T go back to that type of company anymore. My current company would tell them to find a new provider if they tried something like this.

[N. A. Corbier]

Put simply, this is between your company and the bank. If the bank states the account is unarmed, find another post. Your status as a retired LEO may have no bearing on Michigan security law.

[Ironskull]

^ +1


If I were you, I'd find a different site to work. Personally, I would absolutely refuse to guard a bank with no weapon. Expert witness my rear end... Who do you think the first person to get shot in a robbery is going to be?

This is exactly what I said.


I'm curious though... You said you're working for a contract company, right? What is THEIR stance on this? I've worked for companies in the past that bend over backwards for the client in order to keep the contract, and I WON'T go back to that type of company anymore. My current company would tell them to find a new provider if they tried something like this.[/QUOTE]

Their stance is to bend over backwards for the client because "they are the only ones who pay on time." For what it's worth guys, I have refused to work the bank and I will pick up something when they get another daytime position. On the other hand, I can't get my son to leave the bank because he likes it. I do too, but my life is worth more than me liking the job.

[integrator97]

Expert witnesses? Isn't that what cameras are for?

[HotelSecurity]

All bank guards now work unarmed in Montreal. People were robbing banks & besides stealing the money they were getting the bank guard's gun. IMO a UNIFORMED guard in a bank is useless. Even if armed the robbers usually do bank robberies as a living. They are often good at what they do & do so after planning. As stated, the guard is usually the first to be overpowered. Besides I don't think there is any hand gun that is a match for the AK-47 & other weapons that the robbers are usuing. Banks shoud invest more in preventive measures like Man traps.

[Curtis Baillie]

The issue is the bank is located in the store. The store leases to the bank. The policies of the grocery store trump (for lack of a better word at this time) the bank's policies. I'm sure the grocery store has a no firearm policy for it's employees. I'm surprised that LP is allowed to carry spray.

I agree with others - if you are not willing to comply, find another job.

[SHART1971]

I can hear it now...
The bank: "Why didn't you do something to stop them?!"

You: "I'm sorry, I was too busy being such an expert witness and filling out the incident report for you, that I forgot to confront the guy with the gun while unarmed. I swear I'll do a better job deterring next time."

Yes SIR.... I did my job.... Remember, Observe and Report....

[EMTGuard]

I agree that it's a stupid situation to be put into but as others have stated, if you are being told to guard a bank unarmed it's time to tell the store LP to get bent and find yourself a different assignment.

[SecTrainer]

The policy of many banks is to surrender the money and offer no resistance of any kind during a robbery anyway.

Like others have said, I don't see much value in uniformed guards in banks, even if armed. Even in the unlikely event that they're not neutralized first, it would usually be impossible to engage in a fire fight inside a bank with customers, employees and lots of hard surfaces for bullets to richochet off of.

And, if all they want is witnesses, they should just install a sufficient number of very high-definition cameras with digital recording/retrieval and intelligence features. As someone else said, cameras make better witnesses and they're cheaper than security personnel. Plus, the video impresses juries.

There are lots of armed security positions and with your background I'm sure you'd be more than qualified for them. I'd kiss the bank job adios.

[ValleyOne]

OK, let me get this straight. You jump through all the hoops and politely get permission from practically everyone under the sun BUT the LP chic?

To me it sounds like the LP chic is throwing a tissy. She can carry spray, tackle shop lifters, hook 'em p, but security being armed?!? In HER store!!?!! That's the problem. It's a territory issue.

She may have played the liability card a little to high and fed it to the the bank manager who freaked and could have been threatened with a lease isue.

Tell her go mind her own business and pound sand while she's at it.

The bank might be in her store, BUT the bank leases the property and there aside from anything in the lease agreement, should have the ability to dictate how it feels is the best way to protect the bank, it's empliyees, vustomers, and guests. Not some chic who's takin her time from chasing Tickle Me Elmo thieves to bitch becuase the bank's security is armed. (and she isn't wah)

Support your stance on leaving the post.

[Minneapolis Security]

From a security standpoint, the best security a bank could have would be a sleeper security officer (and I don't mean an officer who is asleep).

Put the officer in plain clothes, armed and behind a desk in the area where the loan people sit.

He could also have access to a long gun, concealed under the desk, along with an alarm trip switch.

No one would know who, or even if the bank had security. Kinda like the robbery stake out squad from NYPD.

Probably won't happen though, most places only seem to want the appearance of security, not actual security.

[Ironskull]

Yes SIR.... I did my job.... Remember, Observe and Report....

Exactly.

And Security Consultant:The point me and most everyone else involved (guard wise) is the fact that for our own protection, we should be allowed to carry even concealed. It's not a "find another job" thing. I still work for the company but will NOT work at that bank. As for carrying, I will never be without protection. Period. My bosses know and have no problem with that.

Jack