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Don't be this guy (rant)

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  • #31
    "There's an argument to be made, there. If you are carrying it for personal defense, why do you get to when no other citizen may?

    That's the thing, though. You're either carrying it as a symbol of office, or you're doing what everyone else carries one for: Self Defense and Defense of Others."

    N.A.,

    Why do I have to carry my firearm either or. I carry my firearm because I am a cop 24/7, and I charish the ability to defend myself and others. I took an oath that I take very, very seriously. I swore to protect others from those that would do them harm. To me, that is a responsabilty that I carry even when I'm not getting paid. Infact, the California and National Law Enforcement Memorials have numerous examples of law enforcement officers who gave their life while "off duty". In the past, I have placed myself in jeopardy while off duty to protect others, and will continue doing so in the future.

    As far as limitations regarding the average citizen and where and where not they can carry a firearm, I don't make the laws. I do support nation wide carry for all law abiding citizens of the USA. I also don't agree on the idea of "gun free zones". I think all we have to do is look at the Virginia Tech shooting to see how effective "gun free zones" are. IMO that if one student at VT had been armed the outcome of the days events would have been different.

    Stay Safe,

    Deputy.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by JSam21 View Post
      When I worked in night clubs I would always have off duty officers come in with their weapons. I ALWAYS told them to take the weapon back out to the car.
      My weapon stays on my person or at home in a gun safe. I don't leave it in a car where it can be stolen. If that's your club's policy, I'd go elsewhere.

      Originally posted by JSam21
      If some on rubs up against you and feels it, you gun that is, and freaks out and comes and tells us.
      I'm trained to protect my weapon. I don't allow people to come rub up on it.

      Originally posted by JSam21
      There is no reason to have a gun in a bar unless you are offical business and it doesn't matter if you are drinking or not.
      There's a very good reason for a police officer to have a gun in a bar. Look at the amount of violence that occurs in those settings. I think you can just take a look at the security officer line of duty deaths forum here to see the number of shootings that occur even just against club/bar security. I'm also not going to take the chance of being recognized by some idiot that wants to mess with an off-duty officer.

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      • #33
        I guess I should clarify my statements. This place wasn't a bar persay. It was a nightclub that would have 1000 people through the door everynight. The night didn't really get going until 3am when all the bars on the Missouri side of the river closed. This bar was right across the river in IL. No one came to this place sober. And most of the guys trying to bring their guns in were STLMPD guys. And it would always be a headache with them.

        It doesn't matter if you aren't going to let someone rub up against you in the club. It was going to happen if you wanted to move anywhere inside. I am also saying you aren't trained but what happens if someone knows you have a gun and attacks you from behind with a bottle and knocks you clean out. What then?

        If you wanted to go to another place because I wouldn't let you in with your weapon thats fine. Its one less headache I have to worry about and I don't think they would have missed the $30 you were going to spend that night anyway. Its the greater good theory.

        To quote you:"There's a very good reason for a police officer to have a gun in a bar. Look at the amount of violence that occurs in those settings. I think you can just take a look at the security officer line of duty deaths forum here to see the number of shootings that occur even just against club/bar security. I'm also not going to take the chance of being recognized by some idiot that wants to mess with an off-duty officer."

        So you are going to start shooting at a subject in a nightclub with 1000 people in it? Come on. You have to look at the scope of the incident. You would be putting more people in harms way by firing a shot in that setting. Even if you don't hit anyone with the round you would have caused a mass panic in the club and dozens if not hundrens would have been injured in that panic.


        Ironicly enough the easiest time I ever had telling someone to take their gun back to the car was the Secret Service. They all showed me their badges and I asked if they were in posession of their weapons. They said yes and before I could even ask them to take them out one agent said we will take them back to the car.
        Last edited by JSam21; 09-17-2007, 10:25 AM. Reason: to add the 3rd and 4th paragraph
        "You gotta look like Rico Suave, Think like Einstein and, only if that fails...fight like Tyson." -Dougo83's FTO

        Me- "Should we call the police?" My FTO- "Justin, here, we are the police. Go get em."

        Originally posted by Black Caesar
        some people just need killin!!!!! (Or Tasing, or pepper spraying or whatever).

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by JSam21 View Post
          So you are going to start shooting at a subject in a nightclub with 1000 people in it? Come on. You have to look at the scope of the incident. You would be putting more people in harms way by firing a shot in that setting. Even if you don't hit anyone with the round you would have caused a mass panic in the club and dozens if not hundrens would have been injured in that panic.
          I'm not very concerned about violence inside the bar. I'm confident in my DT training to handle any drunks who want to bar fight. My pistol is for the walk back to the car, down the street and through parking lots at night, and for anyone who wants to follow me outside.

          Originally posted by JSam21
          Ironicly enough the easiest time I ever had telling someone to take their gun back to the car was the Secret Service.
          Secret Service guys probably aren't too concerned about running into the local idiots they've arrested time and time again while out at the bar.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by ValleyOne View Post
            Mmm, if I had to place a bet on this, I would lay some money on Black Ceasar. As it is, he seems to be the only one who understood this post, at all.
            Exactly. I'm already well-educated on both CCW and officer carry rights, as well as the rights that a private business has in restricting firearms on their property. I labeled the thread as a rant because it was just that... me getting a little annoyance off my chest at the person who wouldn't let a cop inside his establishment to use an ATM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by JSam21 View Post
              I guess I should clarify my statements. This place wasn't a bar persay. It was a nightclub that would have 1000 people through the door everynight. The night didn't really get going until 3am when all the bars on the Missouri side of the river closed. This bar was right across the river in IL. No one came to this place sober. And most of the guys trying to bring their guns in were STLMPD guys. And it would always be a headache with them.

              It doesn't matter if you aren't going to let someone rub up against you in the club. It was going to happen if you wanted to move anywhere inside. I am also saying you aren't trained but what happens if someone knows you have a gun and attacks you from behind with a bottle and knocks you clean out. What then?

              If you wanted to go to another place because I wouldn't let you in with your weapon thats fine. Its one less headache I have to worry about and I don't think they would have missed the $30 you were going to spend that night anyway. Its the greater good theory.

              To quote you:"There's a very good reason for a police officer to have a gun in a bar. Look at the amount of violence that occurs in those settings. I think you can just take a look at the security officer line of duty deaths forum here to see the number of shootings that occur even just against club/bar security. I'm also not going to take the chance of being recognized by some idiot that wants to mess with an off-duty officer."

              So you are going to start shooting at a subject in a nightclub with 1000 people in it? Come on. You have to look at the scope of the incident. You would be putting more people in harms way by firing a shot in that setting. Even if you don't hit anyone with the round you would have caused a mass panic in the club and dozens if not hundrens would have been injured in that panic.


              Ironicly enough the easiest time I ever had telling someone to take their gun back to the car was the Secret Service. They all showed me their badges and I asked if they were in posession of their weapons. They said yes and before I could even ask them to take them out one agent said we will take them back to the car.

              Honestly I am more concearned with the thought of who might see the individual (police officer, CCW holder, or other) putting the gun in the car and then stealing the gun, once the individual is in the bar. As far as self defence goes, they may not be able to use it in the bar do to the crowd, but what about the walk to and from the bar?
              "Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists. " Author Unknown

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              • #37
                then it is at least an option available to you given a chance. Always have a snap blade or OC to back up on too.

                I heard a great scenario on this in weapons for LE magazine. There was a litigation due to an officer shooting that was off duty. He had his carry gun on him but no cuffs. The defense won because he asked the officer why he didn't carry cuffs, the clinching question was," So you were only planning on shooting someone that day- not arresting them?"

                SHEESH I hate lawyers
                sigpicMy ideal security vehicle and uniforms:

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                • #38
                  I've heard this as well, and its in vogue now to carry disposable restraints and a can of OC along with your gun.

                  The reason, of course, is because you are carrying on your badge of office and therefore can't just shoot someone like a civilian can. You still have to react with appropriate force.

                  Honestly, when I carried concealed on my security permit for work, I carried a baton, a small can of OC, and a pair of cuffs. This way, I could articulate that I had the proper tools, and none of them were adequate to stop the threat. Or, alternately, that I had the proper tools and could stop the threat before resorting to the firearm.

                  Its basically CYA. Buy a single pair of Tri-Fold restraints, keep em in your pocket when you carry. Buy a Key Defender from ASP or a spitfire, keep it on your keychain.

                  Oh, and if you're not... Carry a damn flashlight, or a weapon mounted light. Do not get suckered into the "you couldn't positively identify the threat because you couldn't illuminate it."

                  How many of you, CCW or police, carry a flashlight with your firearm reliably? Honestly, now.
                  Some Kind of Commando Leader

                  "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                  • #39
                    i carry a little surefire in the net pocket of a small first aid kit on my service belt, I have a multitook right next to it-both in easy reach
                    sigpicMy ideal security vehicle and uniforms:

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post

                      Oh, and if you're not... Carry a damn flashlight, or a weapon mounted light. Do not get suckered into the "you couldn't positively identify the threat because you couldn't illuminate it."

                      How many of you, CCW or police, carry a flashlight with your firearm reliably? Honestly, now.
                      I carry my streamlight TL-2 when I CCW. Hell I carry it half the time even if I don't CCW
                      SecurityProfessional is Back up and running!

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                      • #41
                        The majority of the time I carry my cell phone, o.c., handcuffs, one extra mag, and a little scorpian flashlight(unless I leave my mounted light/laser on the pistol), along with my firearm when I'm off duty. When I don't have my flashlight physically on me, there is always a stinger in the glove box. There are times when all I carry is a firearm and handcuffs, but those times are rare.

                        I'm a big guy (six foot tall, 240 lbs) so it's rather easy for me to conceal my gear.

                        A good buddy of mine likes to give me sh*t about everything that I carry, however it's not his house or freedom on the line if anything goes down.

                        Stay Safe.

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                        • #42
                          Are there any laws down there that make it an offense to be armed & intoxicated?
                          I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                          Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by DeputyJ View Post
                            A good buddy of mine likes to give me sh*t about everything that I carry, however it's not his house or freedom on the line if anything goes down.
                            So true. I have five firearms and keep them (safely) in strategic places around the house due to the increasing numbers of home invasion robberies. My cell phone is tiny, so I almost always have that on me or in reach.

                            In my opinion, the best home defense weapon is the good ol' scattergun; there's just something about that "ka-chonk" sound of pumping a round in the dark, where I know my way around and they don't, that usually says everything that needs to be said. True to its name, they'll usually scatter. But, if anything more needs to be said...well, that's just what the trigger is there for.
                            "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                            "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                            "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                            "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

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                            • #44
                              Yes. It varies from state to state however. Obviously, in general it is simply bad juju to carry a gun while intoxed.
                              "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                              "The Curve" 1998

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                              • #45
                                In the south, usually it is illegal for anyone (police or civilian) to carry while consuming alcohol or with a BAC above .02

                                In the north, its usually .04 to .08 for police, citizens, or both.
                                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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