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  • Knowing to much about your job....

    Im not sure about many of you but i have found that sometimes knowing to much about your job will get you in trouble.. let me explain.

    In the few years that i have done security i have tried to learn what i can about buildings, their access points, security breeches, maintenance problems, doors that dont lock, fire code violations and etc.

    I have often found that once one learns to much, they are often reassigned properties, once one actually follows post orders they are told to stop doing so, once one learns building very well, they are asked to work other properties.

    What i dont understand is if one takes the time to learn these things, the company and client sees it as a threat, but i think i would rather have an officer learn these things, as for us to fully do our jobs, we should know these things.

    case and point, one building i worked in had extra body bags and back boards, so i suggested if we had these type of supplies why dont we train with them, i was told ohhhh those are there in case of earthquake, we wont ever have to use them so we dont need to train with them, we also had ppe, at which i was told oh well we dont ever have to worry nothing is going to happen and if it does just run out of the building. so my question is why provide tools if you will not allow guards to train with them.

    Another point to make is at my current post, i have the emergency gas valve shut off key at my desk, I am supposed to know where the gas valve is and how to shut it off in an emergency i have been asked to see where the gas valve is and i am always told oh we can do that tommorow its not that important........

    at one post we had gas pumps, we are supposed to be first on scene in case of fire, there is a solinad pump extingisher system that we are expected to know how to use to contain the fire if it where ever to happen to prevent it from futhre damaging city fleet vehicles, but any one i asked did not know how to use it, also we were supposed to be able to reset the pump alarms, but i was never shown how to do that, but it is part of job that we are supposed to know how to do.


    I just get tired of companies and clients wigging out when you really learn your job, they tell you, oh you know to much, or dont worry about training with that, my question is this, how many of you have learned to much and have been asked not to do things or to go to other buildings because your to proactive by learning fire code, and pointing out, oh btw theres no emergency evacuation route posted up in case of emergency which is required by fire code (or some other fire code, safety, criminal law) and be told not to worry, but you know they should be worried because you know if the fire marshall came in the building would get fined. and when the fire marshall does come in and fines the building its always the guards fault for not mentioning these things, even though the guard may have said something, but the building managers dont want do anything about these things....
    Its not how we die that counts.....
    Its not how we lived that counts....
    all that matters is how we saved that one life that one time by being in the right place at the right time....

  • #2
    yep

    They get especially pissy when you put in reports day after day of things that they could get in trouble for. OSHA violations, safety concerns for residents. I worked a parking garage that had ZERO working or charged fire extinguishers in the entire complex. I wrote it up daily for 6 months before I was reassigned. I also made a point of putting eaxh extinguisher on a separate form just to show that I was paying attention and to CMA.

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    • #3
      Sounds like the guard has become more than the scape goat for violations, and needs replaced with one who doesn't think so much, and things can easily be blamed on.

      However, with things like fire marshals, the property will still be fined regardless if the guard didn't report stuff or not. A violation is a violation.
      Some Kind of Commando Leader

      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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      • #4
        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
        Sounds like the guard has become more than the scape goat for violations, and needs replaced with one who doesn't think so much, and things can easily be blamed on.

        However, with things like fire marshals, the property will still be fined regardless if the guard didn't report stuff or not. A violation is a violation.
        Yar, i know this but lots of property managers dont think so. and like you said i think they prefer scapegoats, because its easier to blame the guard instead of taking ownership for building coniditons, like one state building i worked in, had no emergency evacuations routes posteds, (required by law) had no glass in the fire extinghisure cases accesible to public (required by law) and i told the manager 3-4 times about these issues and well the building manager said this "the employees know the evacuation routes, they will assist all customers if needed" i didnt arguee but i said "i believe fire code requires it though and the building can be fined or shut down till brought up to code, if the fire marshall ever stopped by to inspect the building." the mangers reply " well he wont come unless some one calls him" i gave up on that issue but managers seem not to care or like said by nathan they prefer to have a scape goat "ITS THE CONTRACTORS FAULT, NOT OURS"
        Its not how we die that counts.....
        Its not how we lived that counts....
        all that matters is how we saved that one life that one time by being in the right place at the right time....

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        • #5
          In other words: Shut up and go sit in your office, or go patrol, or whatever it is the hell my firm pays your firm for you to do.

          I wouldn't argue with people like that. Just say it once, document it as required by company policy, and inform your company so that they can take steps to insulate themselves.

          You can't protect them from their own mistakes if they actively refuse to listen. All you can do is get terminated or reassigned for "making waves."
          Some Kind of Commando Leader

          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

          Comment


          • #6
            Okay now this is a picture similar to the fire extingisher pump system that we are supposed to know how to use out at the one site i mentioned before, how ever this is as close to a picture i could find as the unit we have doesnt have wheels its statonary but this is bout the right size with the right type of levers and pins in place similar to the one that was at that site, and with about the same amount of hose



            but no one at that site know how to use it, nor why or when, but it is supposed to be part of our job plus shutting off the gas pump computers in case of fire...
            Its not how we die that counts.....
            Its not how we lived that counts....
            all that matters is how we saved that one life that one time by being in the right place at the right time....

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by dougo83 View Post
              They get especially pissy when you put in reports day after day of things that they could get in trouble for. OSHA violations, safety concerns for residents. I worked a parking garage that had ZERO working or charged fire extinguishers in the entire complex. I wrote it up daily for 6 months before I was reassigned. I also made a point of putting eaxh extinguisher on a separate form just to show that I was paying attention and to CMA.
              Once you wrote it up, your company should have insisted on compliance and cancelled the contract if the client wouldn't agree. Once they were made aware of the problem, they put themselves at risk if one of their employees was injured.
              Richard Dickinson
              Dickinson Security Management Group, LLC
              DSMG Provides a Variety of Software Products and Consulting Services to the Contract Security Industry
              www.hrdickinson.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Trying to master the private security industry is a tricky thing to do indeed, you strive to be a learned professional and then get shafted because of your efforts and success. We are often damned if we do and damned if we do not; it seems to be the nature of the beast. But I always encourage others to be as educated as they can be if for no oter reason than joining in on the game of shifting the buck of liability.

                I agree that it is best to document - document - document. Put the monkey on their backs but realize that in doing so there is a risk that eventually you will be reassigned. Only a client and employer with integrity and genuine desire to actually provide security will listen to those on the front lines.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by hrdickinson View Post
                  Once you wrote it up, your company should have insisted on compliance and cancelled the contract if the client wouldn't agree. Once they were made aware of the problem, they put themselves at risk if one of their employees was injured.
                  Most security firms do one of two things: Limit the liability so much that it doesn't matter what happens, or be so short sighted that they'll be afraid to cancel a contract.

                  Again, a company should not invest more than 25% of their profits into one contract. That way, they can kill a contract without too much problem. Or, alternately, have one killed.
                  Some Kind of Commando Leader

                  "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    my last company actually handled the monies for its training through its marketing budget (since it was the largest) suffice it to say there were people there that had no idea what training was.
                    sigpicMy ideal security vehicle and uniforms:

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                    • #11
                      yep

                      Once you wrote it up, your company should have insisted on compliance and cancelled the contract if the client wouldn't agree. Once they were made aware of the problem, they put themselves at risk if one of their employees was injured
                      I agree, but our company recieved way too much from this client.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        When I first started at my current post, I made it a point to look around for safety issues and possible OSHA violations. I noted them all in the daily log, and also emailed the facilities guru about them. The response from all of admin was something to the extent of "it's not security's job to look for this stuff, and none of these issues are a problem, so leave it alone". My supervisor stood up for me, but nothing was ever done.

                        Lo and behold, last week another federal agency came in and did an inspection...That's right, OSHA was making their rounds. Per some rule of theirs, they had to post in a conspicuous place all of the violations that the inspectors found....Could've parallelled my initial report line for line.

                        I would've stooped to saying something like "told ya so", but I'm too burned out to do that much work.

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                        • #13
                          "Its not your job to remind me of why my boss is going to kill me when OSHA shows up."
                          Some Kind of Commando Leader

                          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
                            "Its not your job to remind me of why my boss is going to kill me when OSHA shows up."
                            One of the more amusing aspects of the whole thing is the fact that things I thought were fairly serious were regarded by OSHA as minor and vice versa.

                            Example- I noted that a power strip in one office had 6 appliances plugged in to it, and the 7th and 8th outlets were filled with cords leading to other power strips...All of this for an 'employee coffee bar'. It was a really bad 'rats nest', most of it hung over a recycle bin full of paper. OSHA's call? Minor violation.

                            Then, they noted a 'very serious' violation: a forklift operator had not had his performance reviewed since 1999.

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                            • #15
                              Funny about the employees helping in an evacuation. Heck, I still have to show employees around. They may know how to find their office but they never wander around and really learn the building.

                              I sure hope we never have to evacuate the building. Theres only a single route out for someone in a wheelchair if the power was out, and its roundabout way.

                              I'd love to have some inspectors come through, "here's the emergency exit even I have to put my shoulder to to open, and on and on".

                              But if the client doesn't care about security they sure don't care about life safety either

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