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  • #16
    Originally posted by LPGuy View Post
    I've already been sworn in by my department and commissioned.
    Ah. That's what I figured, wasn't sure though.
    "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
    "The Curve" 1998

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by OccamsRazor View Post
      Where do you work, Salishan in Tacoma?

      No, I work in a similar type of city in King County.

      I just looked up Salishan online...my property is the same type of property..even the houses look the same.


      Originally posted by LPGuy View Post
      However, why show him any of your notes? You're not required to prove anything to this person, and by doing so, you're letting the subject control the encounter and its putting you in a bad tactical position. Why is it a poor tactical decision? If you didn't just outright hand him your notebook, ask yourself how close you were standing to a very upset unknown suspect. When I'm speaking with people on-duty, no one gets within two arms lengths of me (the "reactionary gap"). I consider anyone who comes storming up to me to be displaying pre-attack indicators and they will be dealt with accordingly.
      I showed him my notepad to quickly defuse the situation (he did calm down slightly) and to build some level of trust. If I had refused, you and I both know he would've just gotten even more pissed off.

      I realize the tactical situation may have been poor, but several factors made me react the way I did:
      -I figured the guy was intelligent enough not to attack me judging by his economic success and his proper grammar usage. His clothes also told me he wasn't a gang member, our only real danger in the area.
      -We were both directly under a streetlight, under the view of around 2 dozen households
      -2 police officers were on the same block. Since it is dead quiet outside, I know they would've come running if they heard any yelling (they are very supportive of us due to the environment)

      I felt I was not in any sudden danger and my gut told me the same. Had I felt differently (as I have withsubjects), I would've reacted appropriately.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Just_Some_Guy View Post
        I showed him my notepad to quickly defuse the situation (he did calm down slightly) and to build some level of trust. If I had refused, you and I both know he would've just gotten even more pissed off.

        I realize the tactical situation may have been poor, but several factors made me react the way I did:
        -I figured the guy was intelligent enough not to attack me judging by his economic success and his proper grammar usage. His clothes also told me he wasn't a gang member, our only real danger in the area.
        -We were both directly under a streetlight, under the view of around 2 dozen households
        -2 police officers were on the same block. Since it is dead quiet outside, I know they would've come running if they heard any yelling (they are very supportive of us due to the environment)

        I felt I was not in any sudden danger and my gut told me the same. Had I felt differently (as I have withsubjects), I would've reacted appropriately.
        The FBI has published reports on slain police officers and the elements of the situations that have lead to their deaths. They compiled a list that they call the "Seven Fatal Tendencies of a Slain Officer." Two of those tendencies are:

        -Relied heavily upon reading people, and
        -Dropped guard when good was perceived in the offender.

        You relied upon reading this suspect's clothing and grammar to determine that he would not attack you if you complied with his request, yet he had the gall to angrily approach you in the first place, you felt he may attack if you didn't comply, and he even had an active warrant for his arrest. You also state that you feel the only "real" danger comes from gang members.

        Street lights and police officers don't make any difference. There are people out there willing to murder police officers in broad daylight for no reason at all, much less a security officer in the middle of the night.

        My point is that by showing him your notepad, you're relying upon his good grace and his trust to calm down. You're hoping that he will act as a reasonable person might, but we all know that reasonable people don't storm up angrily to an officer (police or security) and demand to know why their license plate is being written down. You let the suspect determine the course of the encounter by complying with his request. I'm not trying to offend you, only trying to be critical in hopes of learning from the situation. Don't drop your guard when you "feel you aren't in danger." It gets officers killed all the time. Do not lower your advantage in an attempt to calm someone down. They can calm down from six feet away through verbal commands from you or they can face the consequences. You are the one in uniform. Suspects don't demand anything from you. You are the one in charge and the one who calls the shots.

        And if he gets more pissed off? So be it. You're not a customer service representative, as much as your company and client would like you to believe. You have a purpose there and it's not to play counselor with everyone who gets upset. Either he leaves upset (big deal), he follows your verbal commands, or he attacks you and you deal with him in that manner.

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        • #19
          Nathan, with as much respect as I have, in reading about your duties while working in hotels I get the impression that you were considered an outside entity, not part of the hotel staff, (You were armed & wore a police type uniform without the hotel name on it, am I right?) I think that makes a difference on the guest?s reaction.
          I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
          Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
            I've worked in hotels. Even then, I could keep people an arms length away from me. Granted, two arms lengths is better, but people like to bunch up.

            I stand at a 45 degree angle to people, as well. A lot of people ignore it, anyone who tries to orient themselves towards me is now a pre-threat indicator. They're usually trying to control the situation.

            People do not like it when you are too close, and they will come close to you to attempt to dominate the situation. A simple stepping back, instead of making them move, makes it easy to keep distance.

            If you have to do it twice, you need to put a hand up and tell them.

            Now, if someone comes charging up towards me, they get a "stop" hand, my off hand, held up at about 9 feet. At 9 feet, I'm already talking.

            They hit 6, I back up two steps, at 3, game on. They were warned, they were told that you're uncomfortable and to stop, so a reasonable person can believe that they wish to do harm.
            Nathan, when I went through the sheriff's academy some of our guest instructors did not think much of Army or Air Force Police training. When one of former MP trainees proposed double arms length between you and the subject with you at a 4-o'clock position and your partner, if you were lucky, stood at 10-o'clock position, and carefully watch the hands and eyes while your partner looks for back muscle tensing, the instructor pooh-poohed idea stating that when in uniform you automatically controlled the scene. About a week later he made an appearance again as an instructor, different class, and stopped in to say he had learned a crucial lesson. You could see from his face he had really been beat up. In his words, "he had the supreme snot, my word, not his, but it has four letters and begins with the same consonant, knocked out of him" and appreciated the wisdom of the military trained police. Jokingly he stated the proper distance should be the distance from the goal line to the 50-yard line and the police uniform was no assurance of complete control. We got his inference.
            It should always be remembered by all of us, "the journey back from death is a long and never ending."
            Enjoy the day,
            Bill

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by HotelSecurity View Post
              Nathan, with as much respect as I have, in reading about your duties while working in hotels I get the impression that you were considered an outside entity, not part of the hotel staff, (You were armed & wore a police type uniform without the hotel name on it, am I right?) I think that makes a difference on the guest?s reaction.
              This is true. People thought I was a cop most of the time.

              Are you referring to the fact people think you're "unidentified" hotel staff?
              Some Kind of Commando Leader

              "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
                This is true. People thought I was a cop most of the time.

                Are you referring to the fact people think you're "unidentified" hotel staff?
                I wear ablack suit with white shirt & grey tie. I have a plaque on a chain that I wear around my neck. On it is a small shield shaped badge with SECURITE-HOTEL-SECURITY written on it. Above it is a name tage with the hotel logo & my first initial & last name. I carry my walkie-talkie in my hand. As I approach people in the hallways the first thing they ask "do you work here?"
                I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by HotelSecurity View Post
                  I wear ablack suit with white shirt & grey tie. I have a plaque on a chain that I wear around my neck. On it is a small shield shaped badge with SECURITE-HOTEL-SECURITY written on it. Above it is a name tage with the hotel logo & my first initial & last name. I carry my walkie-talkie in my hand. As I approach people in the hallways the first thing they ask "do you work here?"
                  I wear a white uniform shirt with navy blue epaulets and patches with the mall logo and navy blue pants with a white stripe down the leg, a shield style badge, a name tag and your basic duty belt and I get asked the same question . . . I've lost count of how many times I thought about smiling, shrugging my shoulders and saying no before watching them stumble off on their way . . .

                  At my mall we had a gentlemen of Middle Eastern descent who thought it was appropriate for him to park his Lexus SUV on a red curb while he went in to Starbucks during the morning rush hour. When he came out and found an officer writing down his license plate, while simultaenously on the phone with PD requesting a unit he became irate and began challenging the officer. Another supervisor and myself responded and I snapped a photo on my cellphone (company owned) of the vehicle and it's location. The man demanded for me to erase the picture and said that I was invading his privacy. (Mind you the PD Dispatcher can hear everything this guy is saying over the phone) Politely as I could I told the man to step back from me before I considered using progressive force and reminded him that police were en route. The man abruptly left before PD could get there. When they arrived, I showed the cell phone picture to the officer who ran the plate, contacted the gentleman's wife at home and got his work number, and then drove to the man's office and wrote him a $325 ticket for obstructing a fire lane. 45 minutes after the PD officer left I got a phone call from the man . . . appologizing for being an a**hole.

                  Reluctantly, I accepted the appology. Does anyone really believe there is reform for people like this?
                  The law is reason free from passion." -- Aristotle

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    if people ask for my information I say no, because I can. if people ask me why I am doing something I usually lie so i don't have to deal with them. If an owner of a vehicle asks me why i am writing down the info i will tell them because its unsecure or something benign like that. They usually are under the impression that i am about to tow it which I just don't do.

                    also to the original post, that is a pretty mundane story for a "mixed neighborhood".

                    anything with a little more action? have to say i can tell you are a good narrative writer though

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by locknid View Post
                      also to the original post, that is a pretty mundane story for a "mixed neighborhood".

                      anything with a little more action? have to say i can tell you are a good narrative writer though
                      Thanks...english and writing/composition were my worst classes in high school and even now in college, so it's nice to see I'm good at something in that area, lol.

                      This story also involves the police (as many great stories do), and goes to show you just shouldn't mess with third shift police officers, or the security officer that can summon them:

                      While on patrol, I heard a black adult female yelling quite loudly around 2300 hours. She was out in her backyard and screaming into her house about how she was going to have someone kicked out and lots of random nonsense. I investigated and entered her backyard (we have authority to enter onto the property and even into the residence if we have cause to believe an emergency situation is occurring...the "benefits" of living in section 8 housing) and this exchange took place:

                      Me: Is there anything I can help you with?
                      Woman: (crosses arms) You're on my property.
                      Me: (brushing it aside) I'm gonna ask you again, is there anything I can help you with, yes or no?
                      Woman: You're on my property. I ain't tellin you ****!
                      Me: That's fine, you don't have to tell me anything (whips out cell phone) but you will be talking to the police.
                      Woman: (storms back into house and slams the door) Oh lord I'm gonna get evicted!

                      PD is called, and they arrive on scene in about 30 seconds (just so happens they were on the other side of the block...lucky me). I inform the two officers of the situation:

                      Me: Blah blah blah she was uncooperative and slammed the door in my face.
                      PD: (putting his "hands on" gloves on) Well, she's not gonna be doing that to us.
                      Me:

                      The two officers knock and enter, and I immediately hear the 5 residents inside yelling like mad, and the woman from earlier (the mom, I believe) yelling about them not having a warrant and to get out, etc etc. 30 seconds later, a black teen female storms out of the house with both police officers in tow, yelling at her to stop. Apparently inside the house, she had refused orders to stay put and made her way towards the kitchen (and as the officer explained it to me later, kitchens have knives) and then stormed out. The family is now on the porch yelling at both the girl and the officers (telling the girl to follow their orders, and telling the officers to not hurt her) as the male officer calls for assistance and the female officer forcibly takes her down.

                      The girl is screaming bloody murder and fiercely resisting as the female officer is cuffing her. Her teen brother comes off the porch and towards this scuffle yelling at her to stop resisting, and the covering male officer drew his taser on him. Neighbors are waking up and coming out to observe all the commotion (some across the street are setting up lawn chairs), and in the next 30 seconds, what seemed like the entire third watch of the precinct (9 patrol vehicles, about 14 officers) arrive on scene with lights and sirens going. The girl is placed in the back of a car, and all of the officers entered and secured the house.

                      I made contact with the primary officer 10 minutes later, who told me that the original argument (the one I responded to) was about food. Wow.

                      They had to call their supervisor down to see if they were going to be pressing charges against the teen female. They ended up cutting her loose with a very stern talking to (this is actually the same officer from my first story). Management did not evict, as no actual crime was committed, but they were given an official warning. They've been quiet ever since.

                      There seems to be a common thread in all of stories I've told my friends about working this site: Running your mouth at security or the police is not a smart move (and it's how incidents usually blow up in your face). Word does get around the neighborhood when incidents like these occur, so most of them know and respect the fact that I will not tolerate any crap when I am on a call.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by alamedaad View Post
                        Does anyone really believe there is reform for people like this?
                        I think enough $325 infractions will do the trick.
                        "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                        "The Curve" 1998

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Wow two good stories on this thread. I have found police to be very helpful to me when called. I work on a private college campus that gets harassed by the local state university students rather often so the police are very nice to our department.

                          I know what you all mean about being mistaken for police. I had to go directly from a restaurant to work once and therefore had to dress in their bathroom (except duty belt ofcourse). I came out and every single person at the bar just stopped and stared at me. I gave them a nice smile and walked out. Apparently they thought I was a deputy since our uniforms are rather similar in color. I think it is funny how people think the police (or security) are out to get them even when they are doing nothing wrong. Such as friends of mine suddenly looking nervous when a police squad drives by.
                          -Protect and Serve-

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Just_Some_Guy View Post
                            the woman from earlier (the mom, I believe) yelling about them not having a warrant and to get out, etc etc.
                            Most people don't realize we need a warrant to search homes, not to enter them, under certain circumstances. Hence the term "search warrant."

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