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  • Police + security vs punk = success

    Without being too specific, I patrol a "mixed-income" neighborhood. You can imagine the type of calls I have to respond to - narcotics activity, fight disturbances, noise complaints, QA, etc). It's a fairly stressful and exhausting sometimes, but I love it.

    On a recent night, around 0000 hours, I observed two police patrol vehicles parked on the street of this neighborhood. My duties include documenting all police responses to the property, so I stood on the street waiting for the police officers to return from their call.

    As I'm waiting, a BAM (black adult male) storms up to me and angrily asks me why I'm writing down his license plate. He's referring to the luxury SUV that I happen to be standing next to. I did have have my notepad open and was writing in it, but I certainly was not writing down his plate and told him this. He demanded that I prove it by showing him my notepad, which I did to pacify him (it didn't contain any sensitive information). He then demanded to know why the police were present in the area, to which I replied that I did not know. He then stormed off ORDERING me to not write down his plate, and mumbling about the police hassling him and how we're all stereotyping. I then observed him waiting outside one of the housing units with a friend.

    20 minutes later, the police officers are finally done with their call (unrelated to this jerk) and exit a residence and start walking back to their vehicles. They're intercepted by this guy who angrily demands their names, badge numbers, etc etc (backstory: When the officers first arrived on scene for this other call, they observed a very expensive vehicle parked in the middle of the projects at midnight, with people running upto the car and money being exchanged. As any good officer would, he questioned the driver briefly). The officers give him their information and resume walking back to their cars (the jerk is still yelling about profiling and what not) when they spot me.

    PD (yelling loud enough for the jerk to hear): Hey security officer! You're the security officer for here, right? You have authority and jurisdiction over this property, right?
    Me: Yeah.
    PD: Well you got a suspicious male loitering over there on your property! You should check him out! We'd be glad to assist if he needs to be trespassed!
    Me: Sounds good.

    So myself, backed by two burly police officers now approach the man.

    PD (to the suspect): Hey, this security officer wants to talk to you.

    So I proceed to question the guy, check his ID, etc etc. He's not too happy, but now that there's 3 guys with badges having a chat with him, he's starting to calm down, but still being kind of a passive-aggressive about the whole thing ("Why are you guys on my case?!"). As I'm interviewing him, I ask one of the officers to run his ID through WACIC/NCIC. Turns out he had an active misdemeanor warrant for DWLS, and we let him know this.

    PD1: You have a warrant out for your arrest, did you know that?
    Suspect:
    PD and me:

    In the end, the police decided not to take him in (it was only a $1000 warrant for a non-violent offense), and we all gave him a stern talking to about how/why the police perceived him as suspicious, that we weren't discriminating, and how we're just doing our jobs, etc. Oh yeah, and to take care of his warrant, of course.

    Finally, an incident where I was able to respond to verbal harassment instead of just taking it in stride. Incidents like these are when I'm glad we have a good relationship with the police here.

  • #2
    I had a former Manager tell my boss to tell me not to take notes in front of the Bellboys. Apparently seeing me writting in my notebook near where they were working disturbed them. They thought I was "spying" on them. (Which actually IS part of my job, to be the eyes & ears of Department Heads during the off hours).
    I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
    Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Just_Some_Guy View Post
      Finally, an incident where I was able to respond to verbal harassment instead of just taking it in stride. Incidents like these are when I'm glad we have a good relationship with the police here.
      Gotta' love that job satisfaction!
      "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

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      • #4
        My note book is mostly full of what I need to pick up at the store for dinner. And pages of things I have to do when I get home. I'm sure that it made people nervous when they saw me writing.
        THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
        THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
        http://www.boondocksaints.com/

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        • #5
          goes to show where there's smoke.....

          I've seen this behavior, and it is usually one of 2 things:

          1. Well to do black man has worked hard to get where he is and does feel like he's targeted so reacts strongly. or
          2. Criminal element uses this type of behavior in attempt to get officers to back off due to negative media exposure concerning bigotry by police in the past.
          sigpicMy ideal security vehicle and uniforms:

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Ron Jessee View Post
            goes to show where there's smoke.....

            I've seen this behavior, and it is usually one of 2 things:

            1. Well to do black man has worked hard to get where he is and does feel like he's targeted so reacts strongly. or
            2. Criminal element uses this type of behavior in attempt to get officers to back off due to negative media exposure concerning bigotry by police in the past.
            OR... they're a substance abuser that's effected by paranoid delusions
            "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Just_Some_Guy View Post
              Oh yeah, and to take care of his warrant, of course.
              Hey, I'm sure he was 'just on his way to take care of that'.

              Comment


              • #8
                Very funny story.

                However, why show him any of your notes? You're not required to prove anything to this person, and by doing so, you're letting the subject control the encounter and its putting you in a bad tactical position. Why is it a poor tactical decision? If you didn't just outright hand him your notebook, ask yourself how close you were standing to a very upset unknown suspect. When I'm speaking with people on-duty, no one gets within two arms lengths of me (the "reactionary gap"). I consider anyone who comes storming up to me to be displaying pre-attack indicators and they will be dealt with accordingly. Next time, kindly advise him that while you weren't writing his license plate down, it is publicly available information, hence the reason it's printed in big bold blue letters.

                If you really wanted to press the issue, you could even let him now that now you'll be making note of his license plate.
                Last edited by LPGuy; 09-04-2007, 09:44 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by LPGuy View Post
                  Very funny story.

                  However, why show him any of your notes? You're not required to prove anything to this person, and by doing so, you're letting the subject control the encounter and its putting you in a bad tactical position. Why is it a poor tactical decision? If you didn't just outright hand him your notebook, ask yourself how close you were standing to a very upset unknown suspect. When I'm speaking with people on-duty, no one gets within two arms lengths of me (the "reactionary gap"). I consider anyone who comes storming up to me to be displaying pre-attack indicators and they will be dealt with accordingly. Next time, kindly advise him that while you weren't writing his license plate down, it is publicly available information, hence the reason it's printed in big bold blue letters.

                  If you really wanted to press the issue, you could even let him now that now you'll be making note of his license plate.
                  Remind me to never piss you off LOL
                  "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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                  • #10
                    [QUOTE=LPGuy;38823]Very funny story.

                    However, why show him any of your notes? You're not required to prove anything to this person, and by doing so, you're letting the subject control the encounter and its putting you in a bad tactical position. Why is it a poor tactical decision? If you didn't just outright hand him your notebook, ask yourself how close you were standing to a very upset unknown suspect. When I'm speaking with people on-duty, no one gets within two arms lengths of me (the "reactionary gap"). I consider anyone who comes storming up to me to be displaying pre-attack indicators and they will be dealt with accordingly. QUOTE]

                    You don't work in the hospitality field do you? We'd have complaints made about us for being rude if we followed this rule!
                    I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                    Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Just_Some_Guy View Post
                      Without being too specific, I patrol a "mixed-income" neighborhood. You can imagine the type of calls I have to respond to - narcotics activity, fight disturbances, noise complaints, QA, etc). It's a fairly stressful and exhausting sometimes, but I love it.
                      Where do you work, Salishan in Tacoma?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by HotelSecurity View Post
                        You don't work in the hospitality field do you? We'd have complaints made about us for being rude if we followed this rule!
                        I'm a police officer, but I spent several years working plainclothes and uniformed security (hence the screenname). Even as a security officer, there is never any reason to stand face-to-face with someone, especially someone who comes storming up to you angrily! There is no problem with getting your hands up and saying something like, "Sir, why you don't stop right there and talk to me." Re-position yourself if need be so that you're at least two arms-lengths away. This reactionary gap gives you enough distance to begin to react if the subject attacks you.

                        Someone storming up angrily to you is definately a possible pre-attack indicator, especially if their anger is directed towards you, the officer. In my case, they may get a quick palm strike to the chest to push them back and off balance. You'll have to act according to your own legal use of force continuum, company policy, and good sense.

                        Point is, never put yourself so close to a suspect that they only need to reach out to attack you. Give yourself the time and distance to react and counter the threat. Don't lower your position of advantage to pacify an upset suspect (in this case, handing them your duty notebook). All of us in uniform should have a personal "bubble" around us that we should not allow the bad guys to violate. The only time a suspect gets in that bubble is when we're moving in to go hands on or handcuff them.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by LPGuy View Post
                          I'm a police officer
                          Already? Didn't you start the academy in July?
                          "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                          "The Curve" 1998

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BHR Lawson View Post
                            Already? Didn't you start the academy in July?
                            I've already been sworn in by my department and commissioned.

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                            • #15
                              I've worked in hotels. Even then, I could keep people an arms length away from me. Granted, two arms lengths is better, but people like to bunch up.

                              I stand at a 45 degree angle to people, as well. A lot of people ignore it, anyone who tries to orient themselves towards me is now a pre-threat indicator. They're usually trying to control the situation.

                              People do not like it when you are too close, and they will come close to you to attempt to dominate the situation. A simple stepping back, instead of making them move, makes it easy to keep distance.

                              If you have to do it twice, you need to put a hand up and tell them.

                              Now, if someone comes charging up towards me, they get a "stop" hand, my off hand, held up at about 9 feet. At 9 feet, I'm already talking.

                              They hit 6, I back up two steps, at 3, game on. They were warned, they were told that you're uncomfortable and to stop, so a reasonable person can believe that they wish to do harm.
                              Some Kind of Commando Leader

                              "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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