Hospital security should go apply to be real cops...

[OccamsRazor]

I've been to HarborZOO before, and can attest to the fact that it can indeed be a hellhole. Two officers I know who work/worked there (one was medically retired after being thrown through a window in a fight there) can tell you some real horror stories.

I think it's funny that the officer in the story, Magliocchetti, earns around $3000 a month, and the "spokeswoman", who in reality is an "associate vice president", earns over $11000 a month. I'm sure she knows all about contacting an enraged crackhead in the ER at 0300.

http://lbloom.net/uw07.html

Hospital disputes security officers' claims about violence

06:11 PM PDT on Friday, August 31, 2007

By KIM HOLCOMB / KING 5 News

SEATTLE – Harborview Medical Center is responding to public complaints by some employees that the hospital isn't doing enough to protect patients and staff from violence.

Friday afternoon, public safety officers at the hospital, through their union, began passing out flyers in hopes of forcing a change.

The flyers say Harborview shouldn't hurt you.

"In one fight, I received two breaks in my thumb," said Giovanni Magliocchetti.

He has worked at Harborview for more than three years after spending over 20 years in federal and local law enforcement.

"To tell you the truth, I've been in a lot more fights here than I ever was on the street," said Magliocchetti.

KING 5 News obtained surveillance video showing the kind of violence the officers refer to, both outside and within the hospital.

Some officers say they're not adequately trained or equipped to deal with the type of behavior they encounter, but a hospital spokeswoman says otherwise.

"We have a very robust training program for our public safety officers," said Tina Mankowski, who says the officers are trained in "de-escalation" techniques and, other than an issued baton, no other protective tools are necessary. Ultimately, these officers are not cops.

"If they want to be something different, like a commissioned police officer, then perhaps they should go to the Seattle Police Department and look for employment there," said Mankowski.

The officers say they want to stay at Harborview, but they also want to feel like they can protect themselves as well as the public.

"I plan on doing my job as I have when I started here," said Magliocchetti.

The officers say they'd like to be armed with tasers or pepper gel, a variation of pepper spray. The hospital says the officers have what they need, and that the security practices are constantly reviewed.

Public safety officers say statistics show there have been 15 assaults at Harborview in the past 60 days. Hospital officials say the statistics can be misleading.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_083107WAB_harborview_security_concerns_TP.8c7d4ca8.html

[JSam21]

I will tell you from experience that hospital security is just like working for a police department. You put up with all of the same incidents that POs do but you get less money, less authority, and less support from your hospital.

We too asked for tasers and pepper gel. They told us no way in hell on the pepper gel and that if we wanted tasers we would have to give up or guns.

They (the hospital) want everything to be safe but they don't want to give us the tools to complete that mission or take on the liability that comes with thoes tools.

[Black Caesar]

I always find it funny when someone with not a drop of public safety training tells people who are trained to do that job and who are "the boots on the ground" that they have all that they need.

Kind of like some bean counter in the Defense Department telling Service men and Women "hey, we don't think you really NEEd the expensive up-armored Humvees you keep asking for, you have all that you need, now shut up and fight".

There are a few thousand American Casualties killed or maimed in unarmored humvess and other vehicles by roadside bombs who would disagree with that assesment.....if alot of them weren't dead.

Or like the brilliant folks at the San Francisco City College, or the very intelligent president of Columbus State Community College.

Finally, Columbus State works closely with the Columbus Police Department to insure that if necessary, Columbus Police will respond immediately as back-up for our officers."

Because, of course, if a critical incident occurs and people start dying right now, it's SOOOOOOO much better to wait for an outside force to arrive at a place that they are unfamiliar with than to have people right there who are equipped to deal with the situation and who know the layout of the facility. That makes astoundingly perfect sense.

((EDIT: some of these Nimrods will envoke Virginia Tech as "proof" that armed officers on campus don't work. Well, 90% of public colleges and 45% of private colleges have Campus police, and many of the non-police security departments are armed as well, so most of the 18 million American college Students are protected by armed officers of some kind or another, and violent crimes on campus are WAY lower than in society in general, but hey, lets focus on the 1 time it doesn't work, where 33 out of those 18 million die, right??? Virginia Tech is one university of about 4500 in this country, the massacre was tragic, but as bad as it was, it was an isolated incident. some folks don't get that.))

By that way of thinking, because the vast majority of cops and armed S/Os never have to shoot anyone over the courses of their careers, that's proof that those guys don't need weapons, right?

Riiiiiggghhtttt.....

The ideologically driven stupdity of some people is so hard for me to understand sometimes. What it comes down to is that these people don't like guns, tasers or anything else, and live in a fantasy world where "everything can be talked out".

At least in my State we know better, because you can't always talk someone down. 99.9999% of the time, sure, you can maybe bring it down peacefully, BUT (WAIT FOR IT)... some people just need killin!!!!! (Or Tasing, or pepper spraying or whatever).

[ValleyOne]

"We have a very robust training program for our public safety officers," said Tina Mankowski, who says the officers are trained in "de-escalation" techniques and, other than an issued baton, no other protective tools are necessary. Ultimately, these officers are not cops.

"If they want to be something different, like a commissioned police officer, then perhaps they should go to the Seattle Police Department and look for employment there," said Mankowski.

Sounds to me like she needs to take a break from her crystal palace and see what really goes on below her perch.

I'm sorry for being rude, but people like thise REALLY irritate me. This has absolutely nothing to do about being cops. It is about being allowed to have the tools to do ones job safely and effectively. If you take everything away from a S/O and give him/her a few hours of Verbal Judo or Tactical Communications, and baton you have essentially reduced his/her options to; "please cooperate..." "PLEASE COOPERATE!" *WHAP, I said cooperate!"

Since she is in the Media/Community Relations even admitting that their S/O's need more training/equipment is a sign of possible negligence. "You mean you knew your people needed more tools to do their job effectively?" So, is they play the game (lie) and say "Oh, no no no, Goodness Gracious why do we need to arm our Guards? This is a lovely, community hospital. After all we care and are concerned for everyone's well being. Why would we want to hurt people?"

Lipstick on a pig

[Black Caesar]

I'm sorry for being rude, but people like thise REALLY irritate me. This has absolutely nothing to do about being cops. It is about being allowed to have the tools to do ones job safely and effectively. If you take everything away from a S/O and give him/her a few hours of Verbal Judo or Tactical Communications, and baton you have essentially reduced his/her options to; "please cooperate..." "PLEASE COOPERATE!" *WHAP, I said cooperate!"

Hehe, What to Corbier say in that other thread? Oh yea, now I remember. Some places seem to have a use of force continuum that says "Show up/talk/Kill" lol.

Priceless.

[Maelstrom]

From a Occupational Health & Safety point-of-view... that Hospital is being negligent IMHO

Makes me wonder what it will take to make the Hospital honcho's sit up and take notice... the family of a (deceased) SO litigating because the Hospital didn't ensure it's employee's had sufficient equipment to work safely?

[ValleyOne]

According to YouTube this was posted 3 days ago...

Harborview medical Center Security Officers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR1-OLUAqks

[ValleyOne]

From a Occupational Health & Safety point-of-view... that Hospital is being negligent IMHO

Makes me wonder what it will take to make the Hospital honcho's sit up and take notice... the family of a (deceased) SO litigating because the Hospital didn't ensure it's employee's had sufficient equipment to work safely?

You know I have some friends that do hospital security and we actually have an ongoing joke regarding the hospitals' refusing to arm them; "Is there no better place than a hospital to get shot?"

[CorpSec]

Stories like this make my blood boil. The smugness of that woman talking about the robust training program and suggesting that the officers should apply to be Seattle cops. I get a kick our of people that think that these verbal de-escalation techniques are the answer to everything.

The solution might be to just respond to incidents in which they feel they are equipped to safely handle and turn all others over to the cops.

[Arff312]

I think its time to place her on the "code 1" list. when she calls treat her as she probably thinks security is so well trained to. When some one is attacking here use verbal deescalation. If th esuspect is vilent or has a weapon call the police and oserve and report. I think this lady needs a real good look at the security department and a boot up the rear.

[JSam21]

Its just like it is here. They are changing our uniform away from the Class B uniform to a more "customer friendly" uniform so we are more approachable. This is coming from the highest level of the hospital admin.

Pretty soon we will be running around in furry mascot outfits with duty belts on giving hugs to all of thoes that would do us harm.

[Knight Watch]

Same story

We had a sitdown with our lawer a few weeks ago. We raised the same issues about being armed, handgun, taser or both. Her response. YOU ARE NOT COPS DONT YOU KNOW THAT. If you need to have a gun or tazer just call the police. I have friends that work at other hospitals and their security is not armed you dont need it! AAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGG!

She readly admitted that she had never been in any fights of any kind has never done anything that we do or has an idea of what we do.

Anyway before I get on a massive rant, Sounds like the same thing different hospital.

We all will need to be armed & trained better than we are. It is a matter of WHEN not IF something will happen and when that day comes I hope that lawer can look into the caskest of the dead and hear us say "We tried to warn you" and hear our children say "whats wrong with Daddy / Mommy?"

I hope things change before that happens. A mandate or law or something needs to come from the goverment if anything is to happen or change.

[Just_Some_Guy]

Wow, and to think I almost applied here (their requirement of 2 year of CJ study or 2 year of campus security experience held me back). Glad my current company puts officer safety first.

[HospitalOfc.]

that if we wanted tasers we would have to give up our guns.

You have got to love people who just don't understand that each tool on our belts is for a different situation; a Taser and a gun are not interchangeable just because they are the same shape.

After a recent incident where a HIV infected patient attempted to stab a nurse with a contaminated hypodermic, we shocked the administration of our Emergency Department by telling them that our Officers had acted correctly in removing the nurse from the exam room and containing the patient in the room by shutting the door until the police could arrive. We further advised them that due to the fact that our only defensive weapon is OC spray that our only reasonable course of action when faced with a subject with a weapon is to remove people from the area, if possible, and wait for the Police.

Yet even after all this, when we proposed expandable batons to our Legal Department their response was “no way are you going to hit people with sticks.”

[Black Caesar]

It's all just another example of something we've talked about here before, the Civilian Mentality from people.

BUT, it also (potentially, but not always) indicates a failues on the part of the Public safety/Protective Services managment. Being an in-house security manager/police chief with a cushy job and lucrative contract encourages some to "go along to get along", even when Goiong along means they are not doing their duty.. Some of these managers are more interested in keeping the cash flowing than doing the job, a job some of them got more from political skills rather than skill at protecting people.

So instead of fighting tooth and nail with higher administration (because said higher administration is keeping the Department and the Manager/chief from being able to fulfill his/her duty), they hide their heads in the sand, and when someone DOES DIE or get hurt on their watch and the media is crawling over hteir facility, the best they can do is produce the memo they wrote a dozen years ago asking for better pay or equipment, and then fail to mention that they haven't asked for anything like it sense.

That's why I have nothing but respect for that guy who resigned as City college of San Fran Police Chief. Most people wouldn't have the balls to do the right thing.