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The Joys of Camera Phones

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  • Maelstrom
    replied
    I probably would've tried a bluff... being that the guy had been monitored (and recorded) over the Hospitals' CCTV walking between two points, and that if he declined to get out of the wheelchair & leave he would be lawfully ejected, I'd also request that he kindly smile for the cameras & CCTV!

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  • Ron Jessee
    replied
    i think i would have had an orderly wheel him into an empty area save for another officer to help drag his keister out of the wheelchair and into custody.

    Anyone can say they are doing their job to the letter and it may be true. But the public doesn't get interested until things get hairy- they don't see everything. And even if they did, they are supremely ignorant of what it is we do. I had a small fenderbender last week coming home from post and the driver was absolutely certain I was going to arrest him for smoking pot in the car. He was too freaked out for me to pound the difference between security and police into his thick skull.

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  • JSam21
    replied
    very good point. I'll bring that up to my training officers.

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  • ValleyOne
    replied
    If your concerns of how you people will react to a camera recording them doing their jobs why not simply combine it into your training?

    Next time you have Defensive Tactics Training (I know I know-work with me here) contact your local high school drama class, or A/V Club, also you might be able to kill two birds with one stone, seek usage of the gym or what not.

    Just throw a little twist into it, After the group excercises inform your class that you will now go into Real World excercises. Excuse everyone to another classroom, away from the gym. Bring in the drama kids and have them use their video recorders and act as a group of unrulely kids (stretch huh?). Just make clear they cannot interfere. Have your officers come in one or two at a time, tell them they are responding to a report of suspicious subject. As they approach the subject instruct the drama kids to start out and say "Hey what's going on here", or "You can't do that!" At the end of each officer's training 'episode' have him/her join the crowd and taunt the officer(s). Then assess your officers reaction to the distraction. Asses each one at the end of the excercise, and then as a group.

    There will be all kinds of reactions from your officers, but at the end of the scenario critique them and remind them that were to act as though they were in the real world so all that smiling and showing off is not tolerated.

    My dad was the Range Master for SEVERAL years. As his kid I was the Official Range Gopher (Oddly enough it was not a position that was on the payroll, but I did a box of ammo for all my efforts to be used at the end of the day ). We did this exact same scenario sans the high school kids. It started out with me yelling everything at the deputies as they "arrived on scene". As more and more deputies drove up to the "house" we roughly constructed the group of drunken neighbors grew.

    Dad, told each deputy that they were responding to a (insert call here) and that they should do it as they would in the field. Also, they were operating on the TAC channel and dispatch was aware of the training. All targets in black (B95's) are bad guys, as well as any with guns. He only changed it for the detectives who were told that they weere coming to the residence to carry out a warrant or follow up.

    This training took everyone by so much suprise that the deputies were waiving to us in the crowd, calling us by name, etc. Half of the deputies and detectives just walked up to the door and started blasting away. After their shooting, dad merely asked; Why they didn't knock on the door, or even announce themselves? Why they didn't control the crowd?

    Why none of them called dispatch for a second unit?

    Sorry, for the long post I just saw this as an opportunity to train outside the box...

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  • JSam21
    replied
    I know that I'm not going to hesitate in a situation because of a camera. My training will take over and I will do what I'm suposed to do. I will then write a truthful report and document what led to my reactions to the subject.

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  • bigshotceo
    replied
    A coupld of months ago I saw a documentary video concerning policing filmed in 1994. One of most important statements was that of a Toronto police sergeant. Commenting on the then-increasing trend of security cameras and camcorders, he said that his greatest concern was that one of his officers would hesistate because they were afraid of how their actions would be perceived, and that that hesitation would get someone injured.

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  • JSam21
    replied
    Thank you for all of your responses guys. Yeah I pretty much smiled for the camera. I think it was a part of me trying to deal with it in an inconspicuous (sp?) manner that didn't let the bystanders of what was going on that lead to all the comotion when force needed to be used.

    Its almost a Catch 22 if you deal with a situation in a low key manner and force is used, to a bystander, it seems like you just jumped the subject for no reason. But if you use loud, forceful orders it seems like you are being rude and with lack of a better word, a DICK.

    I know most people will never know what we do or why we do it. It just kind of irks me that people are out to target us, either physically or otherwise, just because of our uniform.

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  • Black Caesar
    replied
    As long as you're not doing anything wrong, iI have no problem with camera phones and I personally have no problem with people taking pictures of me in public, I am on the Tax payer's dime so no biggie.

    What I dislike about the use of picture phones is more personal (and professional).

    The professional part is the fact that those cameras don't ever catch the WHOLE incident, and that can mean trouble for an officer.

    The personal part is the fact that the people with the camera phones are doing so because they want to catch me doing wrong, same as those cop watch idiots and the ACLU (who hand out cameras for people to record police....geee, why didn't they think of handing out cameras for people to record CRIME and maybe we'd need fewer cops???).

    These same people who pay property taxes (and in my case tuition) for me to be there, who don't hesitate to call me to clean up messes they made and who sometimes aren't smart enough to secure their personal property in public places ("but officer, i just went to the bath room 2 floor down for 5 minutes, and I came back my $1700 laptop was gone, sure there were about 50 people in the area, but I didn't think someone would steal from me at a college, why do we have campus police here if you can't protect my stuff!!!!!'). But at the same time they WANT me to screw up and maybe lose my job?

    ((Don't get me started on this particular rant lol. The same kind of people will want to see "Citizen's Police review boards" established, and then get mad at me when i say they already exist, their called "The City Council/State Legislature/Board of governors ect ect". They want review boards but then most people won't vote in MUNICIPAL elections to elect the city counselors who commission the cops in the 1st place......Ok ok, I'm breathing deeply now, but it's all just so stupid.))

    These types of actions by citizens are the reason why "De-policing" is becoming an increasing problem. But at least police get Qualified Immunity, I honestly wouldn't want to be a private S/O who has to use force nowadays, because it's scary to think of what could happen if people misconstrue the actions on the video.

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  • HCSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by HotelSecurity View Post
    I would & have smiled

    I have also used my camera to get a quick photo of a suspect before I approach him. Does anyone know how to silence the phnney shutter noise the camera phone makes?
    Try turning your phone on silent. I've read that some phones aren't able to turn the shutter sound off. They said that some manufactures were concerned with the people who were taking pictures in restrooms and locker rooms without consent.

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  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    I would & have smiled

    I have also used my camera to get a quick photo of a suspect before I approach him. Does anyone know how to silence the phnney shutter noise the camera phone makes?

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Look to see if I can find it on Youtube and metacafe.

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  • HCSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by mh892 View Post
    Continue doing my job according to company/client policy and state laws. Removed the cuffed person to a less spectator observable location. Hopefully the spectators will not attempt to become involved.
    I agree.
    The camera phone is a bad deal. But you weren't doing anything wrong to have anyone question your actions. I'm always worried between work and reserves that I'm going to end up on youtube or something.
    We have guys at my work that will walk in from the parking lot, get in a wheelchair and ask for female employees for assistance. Nice huh?

    Leave a comment:


  • mh892
    replied
    Originally posted by JSam21 View Post
    Has anyone every had a situation like this happen to them.

    Had a guy that was asked to leave the hospital, he had been discharged from the ER and wouldn't leave. Subject states that he can't walk but I saw him walk into the waiting room from the treatment area and sit in a wheelchair. Subject then demands that I roll him outside if I want him to leave so badly. He then refuses to get out of the wheelchair after several requests to do so. I give him one more warning stating he will be placed under arrest for tresspassing if he doesn't get out of the chair and he refuses again.
    As I go to put the handcuffs on him he snaps around to face me in a threatening and pulls his arm away. Instinct takes over and I, along with another officer, take the subject down with a straight armbar and finish handcuffing him. When I look up a group of 15 people had gathered outside and at least half had their camera phones out taking pictures or video.

    What would you have done in this situation?
    Continue doing my job according to company/client policy and state laws. Removed the cuffed person to a less spectator observable location. Hopefully the spectators will not attempt to become involved.

    Leave a comment:


  • JSam21
    started a topic The Joys of Camera Phones

    The Joys of Camera Phones

    Has anyone every had a situation like this happen to them.

    Had a guy that was asked to leave the hospital, he had been discharged from the ER and wouldn't leave. Subject states that he can't walk but I saw him walk into the waiting room from the treatment area and sit in a wheelchair. Subject then demands that I roll him outside if I want him to leave so badly. He then refuses to get out of the wheelchair after several requests to do so. I give him one more warning stating he will be placed under arrest for tresspassing if he doesn't get out of the chair and he refuses again.
    As I go to put the handcuffs on him he snaps around to face me in a threatening and pulls his arm away. Instinct takes over and I, along with another officer, take the subject down with a straight armbar and finish handcuffing him. When I look up a group of 15 people had gathered outside and at least half had their camera phones out taking pictures or video.

    What would you have done in this situation?

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