Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Police taking over our jobs AGAIN!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Black Caesar
    replied
    Originally posted by LPGuy View Post
    Incorrect, in a way. I was a security officer for a public school district for a while before I was hired as a police officer. Public school security officers are considered state agents for purposes of Miranda (based on case law), but are generally not subject to the variety of strict search and seizure rules that police must follow, because it's written right into (most) school policies that students must submit to a search from school officials when requested, and that includes the school's security officers. I was lawfully able to perform a full search of a student's person, backpack, and locker based on reasonable supicion alone. I could also detain and prosecute based on whatever evidence I found during the search. In addition, lockers are considered school property, not the student's property, and can be opened at any time by school officials.

    A city police officer is not a school official and does not enjoy those privileges, so the security officer quoted in the article is correct.
    I spoke to my buddy (A Sgt with DISD PD) and he pretty much echo what you said. Working for a college we don't get so much leeway, even though there is a High school ( part of DISD. they rent space from us and the high school kids take college courses as well as high school) on our Campus, I'm a "School official" in all of my school (College), EXCEPT the high school.

    Because the college students rent lockers, they have an expectation of privacy.

    Leave a comment:


  • LPGuy
    replied
    Originally posted by Black Caesar
    The Second thing is what one guy said in the article:

    ???

    If this officer is working for a public school board which is in some way a part of the government of New Jersey, HE shouldn't be doing any of those things the police can't do either. Public School emloyees (including public school security officers) are "Agents of Government" just like the Police, and the Federal Constitution applys to ALL elements of U.S. Government, wheter it be the United States Government or "a political subdivision thereof".
    Incorrect, in a way. I was a security officer for a public school district for a while before I was hired as a police officer. Public school security officers are considered state agents for purposes of Miranda (based on case law), but are generally not subject to the variety of strict search and seizure rules that police must follow, because it's written right into (most) school policies that students must submit to a search from school officials when requested, and that includes the school's security officers. I was lawfully able to perform a full search of a student's person, backpack, and locker based on reasonable supicion alone. I could also detain and prosecute based on whatever evidence I found during the search. In addition, lockers are considered school property, not the student's property, and can be opened at any time by school officials.

    A city police officer is not a school official and does not enjoy those privileges, so the security officer quoted in the article is correct.
    Last edited by LPGuy; 08-29-2007, 08:50 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ValleyOne
    replied
    What I don't get is how is this NJ PD going to make up for the 28(?) officers they are taking off the street?

    Leave a comment:


  • Black Caesar
    replied
    Originally posted by Hank1 View Post
    Here in Florida (Pinellas and Hillsborough and Pasco Counties), LE are used a SROs. I do know about the other parts of the country though.

    Be safe,

    Hank
    Most school districts here in Texas that have a police presance on their campus still use SROs. Many have no police presance and rely on in house school securty departments, which are almost always unarmed and forced to rely on outside police agencies for critical incident responses.

    It's easy (IMO) to see why neither is an optimal solution, City PDs and County Sheriff's offices are "Field" oriented police agencies that don't specialize in dealing with juvenilles (and the special juvenille laws) in an educational environment. In otherwords, they might bring the street cop mentality with them, and schools aren't the streets. The Security Department, on the other hand, IS focused on protecting people in the educational environment, BUT are limited in how the respond because they have no more legal authority than any other citizen.

    ((That last part is bad, Public School non-sworn security officers don't get any of the privilages of being LEOs, but DO get the downside, because they are still "agents of Government"))


    But more and more School Districts are turning to in-house Police forces, and like I said, end up having the best of both worlds.

    A good example in my neck of the woods is the Dallas ISD Police and Security Department, created in 2003. DISD already had a police department (the old "Safety and Security Department" had a license from the state to operate as a PD, and had about 20 in house peace officers and 150 S/Os, now DISD has more police than security, but most School Police officers are assigned to campuses, infact, more of these officers are former DISD Security officers), it was really just a name change. Before 2003 DISD had a multi-million dollar contract with Dallas Police for SROs. Having SROs AND a Security (police) department was a wasteful duplication of effort, now DISD PD does it all.
    Last edited by Black Caesar; 08-29-2007, 03:06 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hank1
    replied
    Here in Florida (Pinellas and Hillsborough and Pasco Counties), LE are used a SROs. I do know about the other parts of the country though.

    Be safe,

    Hank

    Leave a comment:


  • Black Caesar
    replied
    I know New Jersey has College level Campus police, but I can't find a single referance to a New Jersey School PD, but plenty referances to School Resource Officers.

    I respect SROs, but SROs are a poor substitue for integral (school distict/board controlled) Campus police (or security if NJ laws dosen't allow for non-college campus police). And replacing school security with SROs is beyond stupid, adding SROs to the picture wouldn't have been a bad thing (like the OSU security partnership with OSP). If NJ doesn't allow for school campus police (the best of both worlds, a mix of sworn school police and non-sworn school security), then just having School Security is IMO better than having SROs only. SROs as, the name implys, are a good resource, but you shouldn't depend on them over security.

    However, a couple of things bother me. First, the whole "what happens if the SROs get called away" thing is silly. The type of city wide disaster that would pull SROs from a municipal agency off the schools would have closes the schools down anyway. I've never even seen a single referance of a SRO being called away from a school ever, it's simply a fear-born myth.

    The Second thing is what one guy said in the article:
    "Cops cannot search kids, they cannot search kids' lockers, cops cannot talk to kids without their parents. You cannot tell me a cop can search a kid going into a high school gymnasium for a dance," said David Rice, who has been a security guard for 15 years in the district. "There is no one more qualified than our security."
    ???

    If this officer is working for a public school board which is in some way a part of the government of New Jersey, HE shouldn't be doing any of those things the police can't do either. Public School emloyees (including public school security officers) are "Agents of Government" just like the Police, and the Federal Constitution applys to ALL elements of U.S. Government, wheter it be the United States Government or "a political subdivision thereof".
    Last edited by Black Caesar; 08-29-2007, 12:39 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ron Jessee
    replied
    *chuckles* seriously though, I think the only reason we're around in the 1st place anymore is that we're typically 1/2 the price of keeping a cop on site.

    Leave a comment:


  • ddog
    replied
    Sounds like the school board is just beating down Security quotes with threats. No one wants to go to prison schools. Security allows the customers laws, and cops would introduce judicial law as their sworn duty.

    Leave a comment:


  • War113
    replied
    DAMN THOSE RENT-A-SECURITY-GUARDS!

    All wannabes lol

    Leave a comment:


  • CAPTAIN KOOLAID
    replied
    as always

    Now what happens when there is major call for police and the officer detail for school leave for that call.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    started a topic Police taking over our jobs AGAIN!

    Police taking over our jobs AGAIN!

    Here is another case of police taking over security jobs. http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?...Y3dnFlZUVFeXk0

Leaderboard

Collapse
Working...
X