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  • #16
    Originally posted by DarkMetalWolf View Post
    Here is what I find very interesting, The difference between the views and comments that have been made here and comments made about this shooting in Sacramento, which is thirty miles from Stockton. Now I understand, One was in an apartment complex and the other at a store and that one was ruled as an appeared justified shooting and this one is still under investigation. http://forums.securityinfowatch.com/...ead.php?t=2968
    There really is a difference in how everyone seems to be looking at and the comments made on these two shootings. So what is the difference? A Security Officer was involved in both shootings and the bad guy is dead in both. Where is the gun debate, where is the now comes the civil part, was the Officer detained in cuffs or not or how about the are you prepared to kill someone working as an armed officer speech on this incident? It is fascinating to me, how there is two different views between these two shootings.
    One of our members who dislikes armed security seems to be MIA. Other members are driving the point of the thread right now, and so it goes to more a critical thinking exercise on the article. Different people, different dynamic.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #17
      More details on the "Good Shoot".


      A teen robber was shot and killed by a grocery store security guard after an attempted robbery turned into a gunfight Saturday, Stockton police said.

      The 19-year-old gunman was pronounced dead just outside the Super Mercado La Amapola, 1901 S. El Dorado Street in Stockton around 7:45 p.m. Saturday, Stockton police Sgt. Ken Praegitzer said.

      Store employee Nancy Ortega said the store was full of customers when the masked gunman came in, brandished a loaded handgun and demanded cash.

      At first, I was stunned. It was happening again," said Ortega, 16, who was robbed at gunpoint while working in the same store last month.

      Before Ortega could hand over the cash, investigators said the suspect spotted the store's security guard across the floor and fired. The guard jumped to Ortega's defense and returned fire.

      "He told me to get down," Ortega said. "I went down and they started shooting at each other."

      The guard, who asked to remain anonymous, told News10 that he had no choice but to fire on the suspect, striking him several times. "I actively wanted to stop the threat," he said. "There was nothing else I could have done. The things that happened here were basically tragic, but if somebody's coming in to the establishment shooting, I think I did what I could do. I think I did my job."

      Witnesses said the suspect then stumbled out to the sidewalk and collapsed, but not before firing a shot into a nearby car with a mother and two children inside. No one else was hurt.

      The guard said the incident left him shaken.

      "I haven't been able to sleep. It's sad. I feel bad for that person, his family," he said.

      Praegitzer said investigators would forward their findings to the San Joaquin County District Attorney's Office to review whether the guard acted appropriately.

      The name of the suspect remained withheld pending family notification.

      http://www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=32054

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      • #18
        He's said, on record, everything he should to remove liability. "I didn't want to shoot him, he made me." I would not be surprised if he was coached by legal counsel. And if he was, good. It shows the firm is actually supporting him, instead of throwing him to the wolves.
        Some Kind of Commando Leader

        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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        • #19
          "There was nothing else I could have done. The things that happened here were basically tragic, but if somebody's coming in to the establishment shooting, I think I did what I could do. I think I did my job."
          That defiantly sounds like some coaching, you her police say it all the time.
          ATTN. SPECOPS AND GECKO45 my secret username is CIDDECEP and I am your S2. My authorization code is Six Wun Quebec Oscar Fife. Your presence here is tactically dangerous and compromises our overall mission parameter. Cease and desist all activity on this board. Our “enemies” are deft at computer hacking and may trace you back to our primary locale. You have forced me to compromise my situation to protect your vulnerable flank. This issue will be addressed later.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Minneapolis Security View Post
            That defiantly sounds like some coaching, you her police say it all the time.
            Yes you hear police say that most of the time. There are also incidents of where a person knowing they are a three time loser will force police to shoot them which is all so known as suicide by cop.
            Enjoy the day,
            Bill

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            • #21
              You get coaching so that you don't wind up putting your foor in your mouth legally. He could have said to friends, "Young guys like that with no prospects but to turn to crime seem to live fast and die hard. This one seemed to have had it coming."

              Now conversationally that's just fine, but on record, but if some unscrupulous newsie can capture him saying it, they can edit it to say "This one had it coming", or otherwise take it out of context to suit the view of the programming director. Most big police departments try to keep the name of the responding officer off record for that reason.

              So legal coaching after a shoot I believe is a good idea.
              sigpicMy ideal security vehicle and uniforms:

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              • #22
                I say good riddance to the scumbag that was robbing the store. As they said in Full Metal Jacket, "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out."
                I do security for work; I run into burning buildings for fun

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by T202 View Post
                  More details on the "Good Shoot".


                  A teen robber was shot and killed by a grocery store security guard after an attempted robbery turned into a gunfight Saturday, Stockton police said.

                  The 19-year-old gunman was pronounced dead just outside the Super Mercado La Amapola, 1901 S. El Dorado Street in Stockton around 7:45 p.m. Saturday, Stockton police Sgt. Ken Praegitzer said.

                  Store employee Nancy Ortega said the store was full of customers when the masked gunman came in, brandished a loaded handgun and demanded cash.

                  At first, I was stunned. It was happening again," said Ortega, 16, who was robbed at gunpoint while working in the same store last month.

                  Before Ortega could hand over the cash, investigators said the suspect spotted the store's security guard across the floor and fired. The guard jumped to Ortega's defense and returned fire.

                  "He told me to get down," Ortega said. "I went down and they started shooting at each other."

                  The guard, who asked to remain anonymous, told News10 that he had no choice but to fire on the suspect, striking him several times. "I actively wanted to stop the threat," he said. "There was nothing else I could have done. The things that happened here were basically tragic, but if somebody's coming in to the establishment shooting, I think I did what I could do. I think I did my job."

                  Witnesses said the suspect then stumbled out to the sidewalk and collapsed, but not before firing a shot into a nearby car with a mother and two children inside. No one else was hurt.

                  The guard said the incident left him shaken.

                  "I haven't been able to sleep. It's sad. I feel bad for that person, his family," he said.

                  Praegitzer said investigators would forward their findings to the San Joaquin County District Attorney's Office to review whether the guard acted appropriately.

                  The name of the suspect remained withheld pending family notification.

                  http://www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=32054
                  I got misty eyed reading this...Why don't we get the respect that we all deserve? Score another one for the private police!!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
                    One of our members who dislikes armed security seems to be MIA. Other members are driving the point of the thread right now, and so it goes to more a critical thinking exercise on the article. Different people, different dynamic.
                    There's no reason to be against armed security... they've got a role to play in this industry too

                    Sequence of events (as per article)
                    * Store full of customers
                    * Offender enters brandishing shotgun
                    * Offender demands cash (commences armed robbery)
                    * Threat to harm is implied (if not actually said)
                    * Offender opens fire (after spotting SO)
                    * SO warns he is about to return fire (indicates register operator to get down)
                    * SO hits armed offender several times (attempting to stop threat)
                    * Offender retreats outside (with multiple gunshot wounds)
                    * Offender gets cuffed
                    * Offender dies... gets tarped

                    That SO had his alternative options diminished almost completely when the offender opened fire in a store full of customers, I don't see how anyone could judge the SO's actions harshly, as they reacted NOT acted initially

                    Personally... one less oxygen thief in the world is ok by me!
                    "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

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                    • #25
                      if it was me I think the only thoughts I would have are legal ones. I doubt I would have trouble mentally after Charles Bronsoning some street trash.
                      sigpicMy ideal security vehicle and uniforms:

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Ron Jessee View Post
                        if it was me I think the only thoughts I would have are legal ones. I doubt I would have trouble mentally after Charles Bronsoning some street trash.
                        I was thinking more along the lines of 'Dirty Harry-ing'
                        "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

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                        • #27
                          More info:

                          "STOCKTON - After the gunbattle, there was a girl on the floor and a man choking on blood in the parking lot. Police said he had tried to rob a southside grocery store Saturday, before a security guard shot and killed him.

                          "It was almost close to closing time," said Joseph Garrett, 39, the security guard who killed 19-year-old Edgar Ibarquen Angulo.

                          Angulo had entered the Super Mercado La Amapola on South El Dorado Street and had a gun, Stockton police said Monday. Garrett, 39, slipped behind a case of Red Bull.

                          "He saw me, actually, make a move, and he said, 'Where you at? Where are you?' " Garrett said. "I stuck my head out. ... He shot twice."

                          Garrett said he drew a Glock .40-caliber sidearm - "a big gun, actually" - and returned fire.

                          "I shot him, and you know, he kept moving, so I kept coming towards him, between him and the 16-year-old girl," Garrett said.

                          The 16-year-old girl, store manager Rogelio Macedo said, is a high school student and a part-time cashier. She was on the floor during the shootout, he said.

                          Garrett said Angulo crashed through the front door as he staggered out. In the parking lot, Angulo continued to fire as Garrett reloaded his gun and the cashier dialed 911, Garrett said. He said he had emptied his magazine, shooting eight or nine times.

                          Garrett said he feared for a woman and a child in a car in the store's parking lot and went outside, where he said the shooting stopped, yet Angulo still moved.

                          "I kicked the gun out of his hand," he said. "He was gurgling on blood."

                          Police identified the slain man Monday as Angulo, who lived in the 1500 block of Pecos Circle, but his family could not be reached.

                          Stockton police Officer Pete Smith, a department spokesman, said Angulo attempted to rob the store, confronted a guard and "a gunbattle ensued." He said the security guard is not in custody and that no charges are pending.

                          The office of the San Joaquin County District Attorney will decide if any charge should be filed. It had yet to review the case. Garrett said police told him "in so many words that I really will have nothing to worry about." Garrett said he did his job, regrettable though it is.

                          An off-duty Stockton Unified School District officer was in the area and came when he heard gunshots, Smith said. The officer handcuffed Angulo, which is standard procedure, Smith said. Angulo was pronounced dead at the scene.

                          No one other than Angulo was injured, police said. The cashier on Monday was "OK," Macedo said.

                          Garrett said he is sorry for Angulo's family. He said to tell them, "I send my condolences." But he said he worries about the cashier, too.

                          "I think to myself, why did it have to happen?" he said. "What makes a guy make this choice, walking in a store, thinking it's OK to put a gun to a 16-year-old?""

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                          • #28
                            good question. And I'm grateful for the fact that the guard's name continues to go unreported. I'd hate to hear about a revenge killing by som dumb family member or something.
                            sigpicMy ideal security vehicle and uniforms:

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                            • #29
                              Good, it is justified. I hope there is no retaliation on Joseph Garrett or his family. I hope he doesn't live in the nieghborhood.
                              "Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists. " Author Unknown

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Ron Jessee View Post
                                good question. And I'm grateful for the fact that the guard's name continues to go unreported. I'd hate to hear about a revenge killing by som dumb family member or something.
                                To late, they reported it. This is a good reason to make it as hard as possible to find your home address. There are many methods available.
                                1. Don't list your home address on your driver's license.
                                2. Don't have your vehicles registered to your home address.
                                3. Don't have a home phone line.
                                4. Have your cell phone bills mailed to a PO BOX.
                                5. Have your utility bills listed in a different name, use an alias
                                6. If you rent, don't have your name listed in the directory.
                                7. If you own your home, its a little tougher. A trust, that owns your home can protect your identity.
                                ATTN. SPECOPS AND GECKO45 my secret username is CIDDECEP and I am your S2. My authorization code is Six Wun Quebec Oscar Fife. Your presence here is tactically dangerous and compromises our overall mission parameter. Cease and desist all activity on this board. Our “enemies” are deft at computer hacking and may trace you back to our primary locale. You have forced me to compromise my situation to protect your vulnerable flank. This issue will be addressed later.

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