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  • Security officer shoots, kills armed suspect

    STOCKTON - A security guard shot and killed a man police say was attempting to rob a south Stockton grocery store Saturday evening.

    Police received a call about 7:40 p.m. that Super Mercado La Amapola on the 1900 block of South El Dorado Street was being robbed at gun-point and that a man had been shot.

    When police arrived, they learned that the man who had been shot was the suspected robber. He was pronounced dead at the scene. He was armed with a loaded handgun, Stockton police Lt. Joe Rocha said.

    Rocha would not identify the security guard or the man who had been shot, saying that details were still unclear.

    A few minutes before 8 p.m., the man could be seen handcuffed and lying face down roughly a dozen feet from the store's front door. Shortly after, he was covered with a yellow tarp. Police had taped off the supermarket's parking lot and were still interviewing witnesses about 8:30 p.m.

    Rocha said it was too early to comment on the shooting, as it was still under investigation.

    In May, a convenience store owner in the Stockton neighborhood of Boggs Tract shot and wounded one of two men who were robbing him at gunpoint. It was the fifth time his shop had been targeted so far this year.

    http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.d...NEWS/708260318


    ---------------------------- DEBATE!
    Its not how we die that counts.....
    Its not how we lived that counts....
    all that matters is how we saved that one life that one time by being in the right place at the right time....

  • #2
    Originally posted by UtahProtectionForce View Post
    STOCKTON - A security guard shot and killed a man police say was attempting to rob a south Stockton grocery store Saturday evening.

    Police received a call about 7:40 p.m. that Super Mercado La Amapola on the 1900 block of South El Dorado Street was being robbed at gun-point and that a man had been shot.

    When police arrived, they learned that the man who had been shot was the suspected robber. He was pronounced dead at the scene. He was armed with a loaded handgun, Stockton police Lt. Joe Rocha said.

    Rocha would not identify the security guard or the man who had been shot, saying that details were still unclear.

    A few minutes before 8 p.m., the man could be seen handcuffed and lying face down roughly a dozen feet from the store's front door. Shortly after, he was covered with a yellow tarp. Police had taped off the supermarket's parking lot and were still interviewing witnesses about 8:30 p.m.

    Rocha said it was too early to comment on the shooting, as it was still under investigation.

    In May, a convenience store owner in the Stockton neighborhood of Boggs Tract shot and wounded one of two men who were robbing him at gunpoint. It was the fifth time his shop had been targeted so far this year.

    http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.d...NEWS/708260318


    ---------------------------- DEBATE!
    Debate? Debate what exactly?
    ~Black Caesar~
    Corbier's Commandos

    " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

    Comment


    • #3
      you think it was justified, giving the facts we have been given ? I know california laws are strict, i was an unarmed guard back in 2001 out there...
      Its not how we die that counts.....
      Its not how we lived that counts....
      all that matters is how we saved that one life that one time by being in the right place at the right time....

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by UtahProtectionForce View Post
        you think it was justified, giving the facts we have been given ? I know california laws are strict, i was an unarmed guard back in 2001 out there...

        Ah, California. My sister is a Deputy Sheriff in California, I've visited, but never lived or worked there. Being from Texas, I can't see a thing wrong with anything based on the info from the article. But then again, the Texas Constitution says "Some people just need killin".....

        Ok, it dosen't really say that, but it should!

        I do know that some uneducated nimrod somewhere is going to read that article, see the part about the suspect being handcuffed and thinking "OMG the security guard executed him!!!!". I've had to explain to people in the past that handcuffing a suspect (even after he's been shot) is standard procedure, because "shot" doesn't always mean "dead".

        And like one of my academy instructors once said: Even if he's dead, he's still under arrest......

        EDIT: To answer your question more directly (and given the info from the article), of course I think it was justified, no matter where it happened
        Last edited by Black Caesar; 08-28-2007, 01:34 AM.
        ~Black Caesar~
        Corbier's Commandos

        " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

        Comment


        • #5
          [QUOTE=Black Caesar;37893] "Some people just need killin".....

          Amen Brother! LMAO!
          " We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on one hand and of overwhelming force on the other" - General George C. Marshall

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Black Caesar View Post
            Ah, California. My sister is a Deputy Sheriff in California, I've visited, but never lived or worked there. Being from Texas, I can't see a thing wrong with anything based on the info from the article. But then again, the Texas Constitution says "Some people just need killin".....

            Ok, it dosen't really say that, but it should!
            LMAO

            Okay to the incident, the fact that the guy was found shot outside of the store raises the question... was he shot during the robbery (and staggered outside) OR whilst attempting to leave?

            Lethal/deadly force to protect yourself and/or bystanders would be the easiest defence for this shooting, however if they were attempting to leave/get away and were no longer an immediate threat then the situation would be a little different would it not?

            I guess it comes down to the legal interpretation of legislation governing the use of deadly force in that State etc.
            "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

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            • #7
              There is really nothing to debate here yet. We do not have any facts other than a security officer was involved. The man was trying to rob the store and the body was outside in hand cuffs. We do not know what happened yet or have any information to base a decision on this, I think it is best to wait and see what is released from the investigation then talk about it. One thing about these discussions that bugs me is we all know in the field you have seconds to act but can analyze it forever and find other options when sitting at home with your comfy chair and coffee reading the computer screen. Now I am not saying don’t comment if something was done wrong or illegal just keep that in mind when responding and try to put yourself in the situation at the time with the same circumstances.
              Robert
              Here endith the lesson

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't really see anything to debate here. However, like BC said some idiot may make a issue of the suspect being handcuffed. It would look as though this S/O's training kicked in and he cuffed the suspect after the shooting.

                Hopefully, the S/O will get paid leave and counseling-I know those are expensive but this Officer will need time away from the job and some help in dealing with his own issues and second guesses.

                Hopefully, the PD will keep a close eye on this place for a while and curb any would be retaliations.
                ~Super Ninja Sniper~
                Corbier's Commandos

                Nemo me impune lacessit

                Grammical and Spelling errors may occur form time to time. Yoov bin worned

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Arff312 View Post
                  There is really nothing to debate here yet. We do not have any facts other than a security officer was involved. The man was trying to rob the store and the body was outside in hand cuffs. We do not know what happened yet or have any information to base a decision on this, I think it is best to wait and see what is released from the investigation then talk about it. One thing about these discussions that bugs me is we all know in the field you have seconds to act but can analyze it forever and find other options when sitting at home with your comfy chair and coffee reading the computer screen. Now I am not saying don’t comment if something was done wrong or illegal just keep that in mind when responding and try to put yourself in the situation at the time with the same circumstances.
                  i would have to agree. we need to wait for all the details before getting to far into this.
                  Last edited by SRT S-1; 08-28-2007, 08:14 AM. Reason: missed a word

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Where does it say the body was outside the store? It says the body was about a dozen feet from the door, with no indication as to whether it is inside or outside the door. Most of these stores have a lot of windows so chances are good that the body was inside, being viewed from the outside.

                    We do not have enough info to make a judgment as to whether or not this is justified.
                    "Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists. " Author Unknown

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                    • #11
                      indeed. the perp could have been making a fighting retreat if he was outside, in which case he was still a threat. Keep us informed on this incident. I would like to know if the SO gets in any doodoo here. And if it's justified

                      One SO in my last company was in an incident which ened up with a justified shooting, but he still got the pants sued off him by the subject's wealthy family.
                      sigpicMy ideal security vehicle and uniforms:

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                      • #12
                        Here is what I find very interesting, The difference between the views and comments that have been made here and comments made about this shooting in Sacramento, which is thirty miles from Stockton. Now I understand, One was in an apartment complex and the other at a store and that one was ruled as an appeared justified shooting and this one is still under investigation. http://forums.securityinfowatch.com/...ead.php?t=2968
                        There really is a difference in how everyone seems to be looking at and the comments made on these two shootings. So what is the difference? A Security Officer was involved in both shootings and the bad guy is dead in both. Where is the gun debate, where is the now comes the civil part, was the Officer detained in cuffs or not or how about the are you prepared to kill someone working as an armed officer speech on this incident? It is fascinating to me, how there is two different views between these two shootings.
                        "You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em."
                        (Lieutenant General Lewis B. Puller, USMC, Marine, 1962.)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Wolf, in the Sacramento shooting we are given more details about how the shooting happened. In the Stockton shooting we only know that a robbery took place and the subject ended up dead. We don't have the details of what happened in between. As I already pointed out, we really don't even know if the body was inside or outside the store. Even if he was outside, he still could have been shot inside, and then ran a short distance before falling.
                          "Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists. " Author Unknown

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            and this is why we must wait until the facts are released. lets not monday morning quarterback this.

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                            • #15
                              Sounds plenty justified to me.
                              ATTN. SPECOPS AND GECKO45 my secret username is CIDDECEP and I am your S2. My authorization code is Six Wun Quebec Oscar Fife. Your presence here is tactically dangerous and compromises our overall mission parameter. Cease and desist all activity on this board. Our “enemies” are deft at computer hacking and may trace you back to our primary locale. You have forced me to compromise my situation to protect your vulnerable flank. This issue will be addressed later.

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