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Rentacop tasers man holding baby (a rant)

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  • #16
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
    They can't "overstep the bounds of security," because they retain their police powers. When you hire an off-duty police officer, you are hiring the police to provide law enforcement services.
    erm, boss? I've explained that to you on here before, it might work that way in other places, but not here in Texas.
    ~Black Caesar~
    Corbier's Commandos

    " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Black Caesar View Post
      erm, boss? I've explained that to you on here before, it might work that way in other places, but not here in Texas.
      You have a very odd state, and I've been up since Tuesday. I'm going to sleep now.
      Some Kind of Commando Leader

      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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      • #18
        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
        You have a very odd state, and I've been up since Tuesday. I'm going to sleep now.
        hah! Coming from a guy who survied Florida?

        ~Black Caesar~
        Corbier's Commandos

        " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Black Caesar View Post
          #3. That the people don't KNOW or UNDERSTAND that they are ignorant on the matter and think it's appropriate to comment on something they really don't know anything about.
          Everybody's got an opinion, theory or interpretation on any given subject... fact is that the Media simply go looking for those they can use/quote to help bolster their story/standpoint
          "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Maelstrom View Post
            Everybody's got an opinion, theory or interpretation on any given subject... fact is that the Media simply go looking for those they can use/quote to help bolster their story/standpoint
            Ain't that the truth.

            It bothers me, because you have the media (which some people forget is a business and businesses are in business for profit) contributing to ignorance instead of combating it as they should.
            ~Black Caesar~
            Corbier's Commandos

            " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by sgtnewby View Post
              Well, the Startribune (Minneapolis news paper) has a picture of one of our officers (HCMC security) carrying in a 12 year old victim of the I-35W bridge collapse into the emergency room from a pick-up truck in the ambulance driveway (a lot of people did not wait for ambulances) and the caption below the picture says, "An unidentified Paramedic carries 12 year old (so and so) into the ER...." Our uniforms look nothing alike. They showed another picture in the same article of another one of our officers wiping the sweat off of his head with a towel and the caption calls him a "first responder". Not one mention of "security". The media never gets it right, it aparently would take too much time to get the facts of a story, so they just don't bother with that anymore...
              Which is why I stopped reading the Star and Sickle years ago.
              "Striking terrific terror in the hearts of criminals everywhere" Since 1977.

              Comment


              • #22
                BC, Nathan we had a block of instruction in the sheriff's academy taught by the county's chief counsel in which he stated, "Hard cases make for bad law."
                Some states or cities have laws or ordinances that forbid police officers to report to work in uniform. They must change from civilian clothes into their uniform in the locker room prior to guard mount.
                Places like the Commonwealth of Virginia encourage officers to drive police vehicles hom and park them where all can see. Additionally, oficers are encouraged to go to and from work or contracted overtime assignment in full uniform.
                Where there is doubt, count on lawyers to take it to court where both sides will muster as much support as possible, sometimes for good or ill. In some instances bad law ensues.
                Enjoy the day,
                Bill

                Comment


                • #23
                  Very long rant/post

                  Well, it's just my $0.02, but, what the hell I'll throw my hat in the ring...

                  #1 The "Expert" Whore

                  "I've got to wonder what kind of moron would Tase an adult holding a baby," said George Kirkham, a former police officer and criminologist at Florida State University. "It doesn't take rocket science to realize the baby is going to fall."
                  Jerks like this Mr. Kerkham do nothning but offer "insight" to the UNINFORMED people who have no clue as to what really happens. By making these remarks (for profit, perhaps-hence the conotation above) he has summoned the clouds of doubt for any ready. In essence, he has tainted the drinking water. IF Mr. Kitkham was a RESPECTED former Police Officer as well as a (former?) criminologist he would have held his comments until more information could be obtained. However, I noticed that it did not say he was a RETIRED Police Officer. So that leaves some doubt in my mind as to his background. After all, he is associated with a college with room for one to consider in him on the faculty as a Prof.

                  #2 The Situation at Hand.

                  The "Victims FELT mistreated by staff and decided to leave the hospital with this newborn infant. Depending on what neck of the woods (or side of the pond) you live hospitals have to take advanced steps in protecting newborns. Hence the RFID tag the child was wearing, that's what killed the elevators kids. (Freaking brillant idea BTW!!) So, one could venture a guess that a nurse called security and informed them that (pay attention) a verbally hostile male, who has no clear relationship to the child against hospital policy. This male is hostile towards staff and is for all they know KIDNAPPING THE CHILD. (that's a felony damn near in all 50 states, since this happened in Texas I would venture to say that would a death sentence). He refused to cooperate with the nursing staff and demanded that he and mother and child leave. In the most simple of situations he COULD be trying to dodge a bill. His behavior then escalted into threatening staff and endangering the welfare of the child. Actually in my eye a newborn of that age it goes right past welfare right into endangering the child's life.

                  #3 Responders*.

                  Already have the mindset that people try and kidnap newborns, hence the security measures a la RFID. Then they receive a panic call from Peds of a violent male with a newborn, and the staff cannot determine if he has legal authority over the child, ie daddy. It would not be a stretch for them to respond thinking some whack job is trying to steal a kid and enter the scene accordingly. Upon contact dialogue is established and the officers reposition themselves. Thiking ahead the cop COULD have told the s/o with the taser to reposition himself for a possible taser deployment. The time to tase comes the cop COULD have given the s/o a signal they are both familiar with or have trained to use. The subject refuses to cooperate, and POP goes the tweeker. Obivously the kid fell... Did the kid receive injuries? See #4.

                  To me, the key here is use of force cotinuem (someone spell check that for me please). Basically, the use of force applied is only meritted on what the subject does. I mean in this, and most, cases the subject is the who set the tempo, or sets the pace of the dance. The use of force is not up to the officers, it is up to the subject. He refuses to cooperate and continues to place the kid futher jeopordy, what do you have to do to put a halt to the situation? Pepper Spray, would a very bad option as the little tike will take a dose. And that would be bad. Can't fight him with the kid in the middle. Sure as hell can't shoot him. Can't club him like a baby seal. So what tool do they have to put the brakes to the atitude test? Taser. The article read as thought their de-escalating techniques failed them (Verbal Judo, or as it's now being called Tactical Commuinications).

                  Besides, for all they now he could have been kidnapping the kid. Yes, even with the kid's mommy there screaming.

                  #4 Two Tickets for the Money Train

                  I read this as an avertisement for his lawsuit. The only thing missing was his lawyer telling everyone what a loving father and live in boyfriend or husbad this guy was. And how he was abused by the security staff as well as the Houston PD. JEESH, they did several MRI's (aren't those bad for little kids?) and nothing came up wrong, even when he kid was placed in foster care. Only when the kid was with daddy and mommy did THEY observe the kid acting odd. I mean crying all the time, c'mon what like he's a baby or something.-The kid probably shakes in the presence of his daddy due to PTSD, from the documented domestic violence.

                  Any luck andthis guy will get the same atty as that 1-800-FLOWERS idiot, and they go forth and try to win people over on their stupidity.

                  OK, sorry that was probably like two dollars and not two cents.... Sorry that just got under my skin.
                  [/rant]


                  *A lot of places hire out regular off duty Police Officers, as well as, Reserve Police Officers. There are some pros and cons to this practice. For example in my state (Oregon) state law specifically states that a police officer is a police officer no matter the time of day, whether he/she is on/off duty or where within the confines of the state boundaries he/she may be, regardless of one is in uniform or not. Basically, here if your a cop, your a cop 24/7.

                  So the pro for some to hire an off duty cop (which BTW, MOST agencies do not allow) for security services is that you receive a person with superior training and experience to most mere mortal security officers. The con is that as I said above he/she is a cop 24/7. So if you hire this off duty cop and require him to sit in a car and observe a VIP's residence over night, and he observes a serious crime in progress away from you client's residence (the VIP) he/she has a duty to act. That action may take them off of your contract, leaving you out to dry if something happens. Not him, you. So that's one exmaple of why people stray from that ideology.

                  As far as a Dept. allowing an officer to wear his dept uniform while performing these off duty tasks, is a decreasing trend.
                  ~Super Ninja Sniper~
                  Corbier's Commandos

                  Nemo me impune lacessit

                  Grammical and Spelling errors may occur form time to time. Yoov bin worned

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Very long rant/post

                    Well, it's just my $0.02, but, what the hell I'll throw my hat in the ring...

                    #1 The "Expert" Whore

                    "I've got to wonder what kind of moron would Tase an adult holding a baby," said George Kirkham, a former police officer and criminologist at Florida State University. "It doesn't take rocket science to realize the baby is going to fall."
                    Jerks like this Mr. Kerkham do nothning but offer "insight" to the UNINFORMED people who have no clue as to what really happens. By making these remarks (for profit, perhaps-hence the conotation above) he has summoned the clouds of doubt for any reader. In essence, he has tainted the drinking water. IF Mr. Kitkham was a RESPECTED former Police Officer as well as a (former?) criminologist he would have held his comments until more information could be obtained. However, I noticed that it did not say he was a RETIRED Police Officer. So that leaves some doubt in my mind as to his background. After all, he is associated with a college with room for one to consider in him on the faculty as a Prof.

                    #2 The Situation at Hand.

                    The "Victims FELT mistreated by staff and decided to leave the hospital with this newborn infant. Depending on what neck of the woods (or side of the pond) you live hospitals have to take advanced steps in protecting newborns. Hence the RFID tag the child was wearing, that's what killed the elevators kids. (Freaking brillant idea BTW!!) So, one could venture a guess that a nurse called security and informed them that (pay attention) a verbally hostile male, who has no clear relationship to the child against hospital policy. This male is hostile towards staff and is for all they know KIDNAPPING THE CHILD. (that's a felony damn near in all 50 states, since this happened in Texas I would venture to say that would be a death sentence). He refused to cooperate with the nursing staff and demanded that he and mother and child leave. In the most simple of situations he COULD be trying to dodge a bill. His behavior then escalted into threatening staff and endangering the welfare of the child. Actually in my eye a newborn of that age it goes right past welfare right into endangering the child's life.

                    #3 Responders*.

                    Already have the mindset that people try and kidnap newborns, hence the security measures a la RFID. Then they receive a panic call from Peds of a violent male with a newborn, and the staff cannot determine if he has legal authority over the child, ie daddy. It would not be a stretch for them to respond thinking some whack job is trying to steal a kid and enter the scene accordingly. Upon contact dialogue is established and the officers reposition themselves. Thiking ahead the cop COULD have told the s/o with the taser to reposition himself for a possible taser deployment. The time to tase comes the cop COULD have given the s/o a signal they are both familiar with or have trained to use. The subject refuses to cooperate, and POP goes the tweeker. Obivously the kid fell... Did the kid receive injuries? See #4.

                    To me, the key here is use of force cotinuem (someone spell check that for me please). Basically, the use of force applied is only meritted on what the subject does. I mean in this, and most, cases the subject is the who set the tempo, or sets the pace of the dance. The use of force is not up to the officers, it is up to the subject. He refuses to cooperate and continues to place the kid futher jeopordy, what do you have to do to put a halt to the situation? Pepper Spray, would a very bad option as the little tike will take a dose. And that would be bad. Can't fight him with the kid in the middle. Sure as hell can't shoot him. Can't club him like a baby seal. So what tool do they have to put the brakes to the atitude test? Taser. The article read as thought their de-escalating techniques failed them (Verbal Judo, or as it's now being called Tactical Commuinications).

                    Besides, for all they now he could have been kidnapping the kid. Yes, even with the kid's mommy there screaming.

                    #4 Two Tickets for the Money Train

                    I read this as an advertisement for his lawsuit. The only thing missing was his lawyer telling everyone what a loving father and live in boyfriend or husbad this guy was. And how he was abused by the security staff as well as the Houston PD. JEESH, they did several MRI's (aren't those bad for little kids?) and nothing came up wrong, even when he kid was placed in foster care. Only when the kid was with daddy and mommy did THEY observe the kid acting odd. I mean crying all the time, c'mon what like he's a baby or something.-The kid probably shakes in the presence of his daddy due to PTSD, from the documented domestic violence.

                    Any luck andthis guy will get the same atty as that 1-800-FLOWERS idiot, and they go forth and try to win people over on their stupidity.

                    OK, sorry that was probably like two dollars and not two cents.... Sorry that just got under my skin.
                    [/rant]


                    *A lot of places hire out regular off duty Police Officers, as well as, Reserve Police Officers. There are some pros and cons to this practice. For example in my state (Oregon) state law specifically states that a police officer is a police officer no matter the time of day, whether he/she is on/off duty or where within the confines of the state boundaries he/she may be, regardless of one is in uniform or not. Basically, here if your a cop, your a cop 24/7.

                    So the pro for some to hire an off duty cop (which BTW, MOST agencies do not allow) for security services is that you receive a person with superior training and experience to most mere mortal security officers. The con is that as I said above he/she is a cop 24/7. So if you hire this off duty cop and require him to sit in a car and observe a VIP's residence over night, and he observes a serious crime in progress away from you client's residence (the VIP) he/she has a duty to act. That action may take them off of your contract, leaving you out to dry if something happens. Not him, you. So that's one exmaple of why people stray from that ideology.

                    As far as a Dept. allowing an officer to wear his dept uniform while performing these off duty tasks, is a decreasing trend.
                    ~Super Ninja Sniper~
                    Corbier's Commandos

                    Nemo me impune lacessit

                    Grammical and Spelling errors may occur form time to time. Yoov bin worned

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ValleyOne View Post
                      Well, it's just my $0.02, but, what the hell I'll throw my hat in the ring...

                      #1 The "Expert" Whore.
                      It looks like he charges $7500. for case preparation and $6500. plus expenses to testify. ValleyOne, I believe you hit the nail on the head.


                      http://www.krimedr.com/FeeandExpensePolicies070430.pdf

                      Comment

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