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interesting article.
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The stripping of the LE powers is silly IMO. They say they want focus on protecting the Space Center, not enforcing laws... how many times has there been an occurance where you would have been able to handle something better if you had some vested LE authority. I know for me, there has been more than enough times."Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
"The Curve" 1998
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A couple of scenarios come to mind, neither of them good:
#1. Some high up NASA lawyer is of the opinion that a contractor employed by a federal agency should not be enforcing non-federal law on a federal reservation. It's slightly overzealous thinking if you ask me, because even though the officers were contracted to the federal agency-
-A) they are still not federal employees
and
-B) the empowering agency (the Sheriff's office) is a local , not federal entity.
I've seen this kind of thinking up close, when the Federal Protective Service guys got a directive from GSA (FPS was part of GSA back then) telling them not to enforce state law at federal facitilies even though Texas law permits this.
(( for referance sake- art 2.122 (b) A person designated as a special policeman by the Federal Protective Services division of the General Services Administration under 40 U.S.C. Section 318 or 318d is not a peace officer but has the powers of arrest and search and seizure as to any offense under the laws of this state.))
Likewise the Dept of the Army restricts some of it's own civilian DoA police and contract S/Os because of posse commitatus, even though posse commitatus applys strictly to federal military forces (not forces under military command).
Iguess you could call it erring on the side of caution in all these cases, but I think it's a bit too catuious.
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Scenarior #2 is I think more likely though, and it's mentioned in the article:
Last month, KSC officials directed security contractor Space Gateway Support to stop issuing the state citations to KSC workers.
I've seen this personally too, and heard of it a lot from other Campus police officers. Employees complain about us writing them tickets they have to actually pay (lest the want a nice Deputy constable to come to the job and give them and nice ride to a un-nice place, which has happened), and trying to get out from under the preassure, college administrations would say "well, don't write our people".
Which is just as wrong (and illegal down here) as when usually smaller cities try to tell their cops to not write city residents or city government employees, only outsiders "so as to not piss anyone off".
But being contractors, the Security company in the article has no choice but to comply....
BUT, seeing NASA's attitude, maybe its a good thing that the Sheriff take directly over (and charge them out the wazzo, since fed reservations don't pay local taxes, atleady they don't in my state). That way the employees who bitched about security writing tickets will see the error of their ways, because Traffic deputies won't be as nice as KSC security was lol.~Black Caesar~
Corbier's Commandos
" "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher
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Originally posted by Bill Warnock View PostBlack Caesar since that is federal land, I'd think 18USC13 would apply and magistrate tickets would be issued.
Enjoy the day,
Bill~Black Caesar~
Corbier's Commandos
" "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher
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Originally posted by Black Caesar View PostYea, there is really no reason why they wouldn't have their own police force, damn near every other Fed agency does it seems lol. A simple act of congress would allow for a NASA police/security department.
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Originally posted by Black Caesar View PostYea, there is really no reason why they wouldn't have their own police force, damn near every other Fed agency does it seems lol. A simple act of congress would allow for a NASA police/security department.
Enjoy the day,
Bill
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I think its more a matter of money and control. Look at a few federal installations, they all hire "security police" forces from Wackenhut Government Services or Aliuq or whoever is fronting for Wackenhut this year.
This way, if something bad happens, the government can shove responsibility off to Wackenhut. Like they do, by firing them and then having Aliuiq or whatever rehire Wackenhut as a subcontractor.Some Kind of Commando Leader
"Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law
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Now that SGS security personnel are only Class D and G officers (they're armed, they're required to have a G), they are fully subject to FSS 493 and cannot detain criminals unless they have commited a felony or a breach of the peace.
Which means 90% of their crimes are un-detainable. Trespass? Not a felony or BOP in Florida. Simple assault? Nope.
Basically, they're O&R security now. This reminds me of the Navy Police bitching that they're being turned into security guards, as well.Some Kind of Commando Leader
"Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law
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Originally posted by ValleyOne View PostNow THAT'S sig worthy.
~Black Caesar~
Corbier's Commandos
" "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher
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The federal government hires a lot of security officer from a lot of companies. I work at both a federal lab and at a Federal Courthouse. GSA property, and supervised by FPS.
What I can do at one site is not what I can do at another, it all depends on what the contract calls for. Mostly, we call the local PD for arrests, but we may detain people until they or FPS gets here.
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Originally posted by kingsman View PostThe federal government hires a lot of security officer from a lot of companies. I work at both a federal lab and at a Federal Courthouse. GSA property, and supervised by FPS.
What I can do at one site is not what I can do at another, it all depends on what the contract calls for. Mostly, we call the local PD for arrests, but we may detain people until they or FPS gets here.
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