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  • #46
    Originally posted by Tennsix
    Straight for the eyes.
    Like a cobra
    Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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    • #47
      If your using streamer, aim for the eyes, and make a circle as you count to one one thousand.

      If your using fogger, aim for the eyes, and hold your breath.

      If your using gel or foam, aim for the forehead, then bring it down into the eyes. This makes sure that the foam will get everywhere, including the hair, and drip into the eyes and mouth.

      Keep in mind that OC works better at close ranges, such as 3-6 feet. Trying to nail someone 10 to 20 feet out will contaminate the entire area, including yourself, and you will probally just piss the guy off. Besides, at close range, you can then effect a quick takedown while the bad guy is reacting to the initial OC effects.
      Some Kind of Commando Leader

      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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      • #48
        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
        This discussion of which baton is more dangerous needs to address two additional things. The first is the diameter of the shaft, and the second is how the operator is using the weapon.

        The ASP has a very small diameter compared to the 1.25" diameter baton (PR-24, Straight Stick, etc). The smaller diameter concentrates the force, especially at the tip, yielding a "deeper" strike into the tissue. Just like a woman's heel is more dangerous than the ball of her foot (smaller area, greater force, deeper shock potential), so is the ASP.

        There's also how the operator is using the weapon, and the imposed limitations of the ASP training system.
        The type of baton it is is a Monadnock steel straight baton. It has a diameter of 1.25", the same material as the PR-24, except with no side handle and not expandable. It weighs quite a bit more than the wooden one I also own. A strike from it causes more damage than the wooden baton since it weighs more, provided you can generate the same amount of acceleration.

        Force = Mass x Speed

        It is more versatile with thrusting and poking motions than an asp and can be used in "quick draw" applications. The entire part of the rod can be used as a lever or striking surface, whereas the effective parts of an asp are the little ball on the end and the opposite end of the handle. The disadvantages of it are it is more difficult to retain and it hampers your mobility a bit while doing things like bailing out of a car, running, jumping, and climbing.

        I have an asp baton as well, but I normally carry the straight stick. I have had two replace two asps since they did bend when the ball missed a small target and the joint hit it instead. The center of the rod is hollow. Quite a bit of acceleration can be gained with a proper shockwave or cutting strike with a lot of destructive power, but the applications of using the rod for leverage and the ends for quick thrusts are fewer and it also takes more physical effort and time to remove it from its scabbard and extend it before striking.
        "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

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        • #49
          Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
          If your using streamer, aim for the eyes, and make a circle as you count to one one thousand.

          If your using fogger, aim for the eyes, and hold your breath.

          If your using gel or foam, aim for the forehead, then bring it down into the eyes. This makes sure that the foam will get everywhere, including the hair, and drip into the eyes and mouth.

          Keep in mind that OC works better at close ranges, such as 3-6 feet. Trying to nail someone 10 to 20 feet out will contaminate the entire area, including yourself, and you will probally just piss the guy off. Besides, at close range, you can then effect a quick takedown while the bad guy is reacting to the initial OC effects.
          Closer than three feet, OC may not be effective. The carrier agent won?t have time to evaporate and the suspect will get a face full of carrier while the OC drips off with very little effect.
          I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
          -Lieutenant Commander Data
          sigpic

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          • #50
            One of my favorite applications of OC was used while a suspect was wrestling with an off-duty police officer I was working with. One half-second burst up the suspect's right nostril put him down right away and didn't contaminate the officer. We also found the most effective brand of nasal spray
            "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Tennsix
              Closer than three feet, OC may not be effective. The carrier agent won?t have time to evaporate and the suspect will get a face full of carrier while the OC drips off with very little effect.
              Even worse, you might get hydrololic needling or whatever they're calling it, where the stream penetrates soft tissues of the eyes and mucus membranes.
              Some Kind of Commando Leader

              "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Tennsix
                Closer than three feet, OC may not be effective. The carrier agent won?t have time to evaporate and the suspect will get a face full of carrier while the OC drips off with very little effect.

                I was sprayed during a fight at less than arm's length, and it definitely had an effect on me

                The officer who did the spraying was right handed, but was using that hand to control the suspect's left arm, so she sprayed with her left hand....Getting her self in the left eye, the suspect and myself full in the face.

                Enough reading for now, my eyes are watering too badly

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by wilrobnson
                  I was sprayed during a fight at less than arm's length, and it definitely had an effect on me

                  The officer who did the spraying was right handed, but was using that hand to control the suspect's left arm, so she sprayed with her left hand....Getting her self in the left eye, the suspect and myself full in the face.

                  Enough reading for now, my eyes are watering too badly
                  Yeah, it MAY not be as effective at close range. It will still bite but odds are it won't bite as hard.
                  I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
                  -Lieutenant Commander Data
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                    Even worse, you might get hydrololic needling or whatever they're calling it, where the stream penetrates soft tissues of the eyes and mucus membranes.
                    yep, you are right about that. The bad guy could have grounds for a civil suit. Hmm... Isn't life grand....
                    I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
                    -Lieutenant Commander Data
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      This discussion is making me want to get my theraflu back out.
                      "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by 1stWatch
                        This discussion is making me want to get my theraflu back out.
                        Don't forget your Visine to.
                        Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Tennsix
                          yep, you are right about that. The bad guy could have grounds for a civil suit. Hmm... Isn't life grand....
                          Use Cone instead of Steamer if you spray real close. Problem solved.
                          Some Kind of Commando Leader

                          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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