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  • Wisconsin "Personal Protection Act"

    Good job Gov. Doyle, let the bad guys get on about their business without being harassed by law-abiding citizens.

    http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1562229/posts

  • #2
    Originally posted by jimmyhat
    Good job Gov. Doyle, let the bad guys get on about their business without being harassed by law-abiding citizens.

    http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1562229/posts
    Man, he does that yearly. Here's the industry related kicker:

    A sworn law enforcement officer may carry their weapon concealed 24/7. Including while performing other jobs. It is illegal to carry a concealed weapon in Wisconsin. If you require armed private investigators, you must hire off duty law enforcement officers. They are then administered the PI test, and are authorized to work as Private Investigators. They are also authorized to be armed under their police powers!

    In other words, my tax dollars are paying for off duty cops to moonlight as PIs and bodyguards with a city weapon. No citizen may carry concealed, so you must use off duty cops for any armed gig.

    In 1999, the Wisconsin Division of Regulation "Private Investigation Advisory Council" voted to seek legislation to arm private investigators, and provide additional training to armed security persons (Wisconsin DAAT) raising it fro m 6 dollars and 16 hours of classroom to 40 range/classroom/DAAT. The next year, the council was disbanded. The rules were never instated.

    It is estimated that once the PPA is passed, similar legislation for PIs may be passed, or that PIs would be authorized to work on their CCWs.

    However, right now, your private company must hire employees who have police powers to achieve your private objectives.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

    Comment


    • #3
      12 years in the running

      That's how long Wi has been fighting for CCW. Two years ago it was vetoed, overturned by the Senate and lost by 1 stinkin vote in the Assembly. This vote origninally had been pro-CCW, but the Assemblyman changed his vote when the veto override came around. The new override (sometime in 2006) is teetering on the brink. The Senate again has enough votes to override, but the assembly may be one vote short again. I've emailed all the legislators who seem to be thinking about changing thier vote back to a "Nay". Hopefully this year we get it!

      Comment


      • #4
        I wonder how many weapons are included in the T.O&E. of all the protection details that escort Wisconsins Gov. and Senators everywhere they go.

        I guess it's easy to ignore the self-defense of your constituents when you have armed bodyguards.

        Comment


        • #5
          Just curious

          Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
          If you require armed private investigators, you must hire off duty law enforcement officers. They are then administered the PI test, and are authorized to work as Private Investigators. They are also authorized to be armed under their police powers!
          In other words, my tax dollars are paying for off duty cops to moonlight as PIs and bodyguards with a city weapon.
          If one requires armed private investigators, and they hire off-duty LEOs, how are your tax dollars paying for it?

          Also, I don't know about WI cops, but I've rarely met an officer who carries his issue weapon off-duty. They're generally full-size, bulky, and stick out like a sore thumb. Unless you're a newbie and WANT people to see it (I still don't understand that one), you'd generally carry a smaller weapon off-duty. Most of the guys I've worked with carried a baby Glock or small wheel gun.

          That, and if you're involved in a shoot off-duty, your weapon is evidence, and you'll most likely kiss it goodbye until after a trial/inquest is complete.
          Last edited by OccamsRazor; 01-26-2006, 04:11 PM. Reason: Edited for yet more spelling mistakes. This decaf thing is not working.

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          • #6
            This is one reason I shall never live in Wisconsin. My gun stays on at all times.
            "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

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            • #7
              N.A. as much as I respect your opinions and know how much you study up on topics, I'm going to have to disagree with you on the armed PI issue. I have a friend who is a PI up in the Stevie P area, he has never been a cop, yet he is still certified to carry his gun (which he does daily). Now the concealed part is a different story. I really don't want to get my statutes book out right now, (its 10:45pm and the book is in my car) but I believe the law is that a PI can never carry concealed, yet as long as they pass a 36 or 30 hour course like a Security Guard they can go armed. Also, if certified to carry, when in a vehicle the gun must be in a holster, not tucked between the seats. I'll try to find the statute and post it tomorrow.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by ff000525
                N.A. as much as I respect your opinions and know how much you study up on topics, I'm going to have to disagree with you on the armed PI issue. I have a friend who is a PI up in the Stevie P area, he has never been a cop, yet he is still certified to carry his gun (which he does daily). Now the concealed part is a different story. I really don't want to get my statutes book out right now, (its 10:45pm and the book is in my car) but I believe the law is that a PI can never carry concealed, yet as long as they pass a 36 or 30 hour course like a Security Guard they can go armed. Also, if certified to carry, when in a vehicle the gun must be in a holster, not tucked between the seats. I'll try to find the statute and post it tomorrow.
                Wisconsin is an Open Carry State. He does not need a license to carry openly, nor do you or I. He can never, however, carry concealed on public property.

                Wisconsin, however, tried to state that a PI may never carry openly unless performing "uniformed security duties." That flies about as well as "carrying openly is disturbing the peace," ie: No one has ever been convicted of this statute violation when detained by police officers for having a gun on.

                Two things I'd be interested in knowing. 1) Does this person wear a badge or shield? 2) Does he wear identifable clothing that indicates that he is an agent or investigator? You could argue that a polo shirt with a badge on it is a "security uniform," which gets around the "uniformed security duties" requirement. I ask about the badge because WAC specifically states "no badges on PIs." I've wondered if this is a blue law, or not.

                If you can find a way for a PI to openly carry his weapon while being a PI, and not a "uniformed security person," I'd be interested in hearing it. The way the state's website and appropriate statutes read, its either illegal, or its against Wisconsin Administrative Code, but not illegal.

                The nice thing about the Armed Security Person card is that you can carry in a motor vehicle without having to trunk the gun and lock-box the ammunition, to get around the DNR rule.
                Last edited by N. A. Corbier; 01-27-2006, 04:37 AM.
                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by wilrobnson
                  If one requires armed private investigators, and they hire off-duty LEOs, how are your tax dollars paying for it?

                  Also, I don't know about WI cops, but I've rarely met an officer who carries his issue weapon off-duty. They're generally full-size, bulky, and stick out like a sore thumb. Unless you're a newbie and WANT people to see it (I still don't understand that one), you'd generally carry a smaller weapon off-duty. Most of the guys I've worked with carried a baby Glock or small wheel gun.

                  That, and if you're involved in a shoot off-duty, your weapon is evidence, and you'll most likely kiss it goodbye until after a trial/inquest is complete.
                  Our tax dollars pay for the sworn law enforcement officer's training, and his liability insurance. He is never "off-duty," he is carrying as a sworn law enforcement officer, and never loses his arrest/carry powers. In other words, a PI company hires a police officer to BE a police officer. His power is invested in him by the city/county/state, not the PI licensing agency.
                  Some Kind of Commando Leader

                  "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                    Our tax dollars pay for the sworn law enforcement officer's training, and his liability insurance. He is never "off-duty," he is carrying as a sworn law enforcement officer, and never loses his arrest/carry powers. In other words, a PI company hires a police officer to BE a police officer. His power is invested in him by the city/county/state, not the PI licensing agency.
                    Truly a Rent-A-Cop. (for those that missed it in another thread, I HATE the term Rent-A-Cop when refering to private security.)
                    Hospital Security Officer

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by EMTGuard
                      Truly a Rent-A-Cop. (for those that missed it in another thread, I HATE the term Rent-A-Cop when refering to private security.)
                      Indeed. You can rent a sworn law enforcement officer in Wisconsin, just like in other states. The only difference, I've seen, is that you can rent them, put them in a security guard uniform, and they're still a cop.
                      Some Kind of Commando Leader

                      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                      • #12
                        And now we've lost it by 2 votes.....hhhhmmm we only lost it by one last year

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                        • #13
                          Conceal & Carry

                          I am torn between loyalties when it comes to the topic of C & C. I am aware that state and local governments are very rigorous in its training & mandating of conceal & carry. But other states have done it, and recorded a higher number of crimes involving firearms. I'd like to see it. To make the TRUE criminals "think twice". But then again, it might take traffic road rage, and other daily human confrontations to an all new level. It's a double-edged sword, for sure. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
                          "If you run, you'll only go to jail tired."

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                          • #14
                            Ok, Maybe I over seen something here but to tell me you are not allowed to carry a weapon for self defense as a regular cilvilian?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You may not conceal any weapon or dangerous device upon your person. That means no knives (folders are called tools and exempt if under 4 inches), no billy clubs, no pepper spray (Unless under/over a certain gram weight, must be readily identifable as a can of OC, and must be on person), no swords, and no electric weapons.

                              You may carry a baton, billie club, knife, pepper spray (still within gram weight rules, must be a can, must be on belt), or a firearm openly and plainly encased upon the person. You may not carry a firearm while riding in a motor vehicle. You may not carry an electric weapon.

                              So, to answer your question - outside of your home, you may not carry a weapon for personal protection unless you are prepared to deal with "disorderly conduct" charges, however trumped.
                              Some Kind of Commando Leader

                              "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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