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Hmmm, slightly difficult situation here...

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  • SecTrainer
    replied
    Predictably, we all seem to be like the six blind men describing an elephant here...lots of different notions, each of which is faulty because of our perspective is limited.

    Workplace misconduct is a road littered with landmines and IEDs so it's very difficult, if not impossible, to say "what should be done" about any given situation without a full objective assessment of the facts.

    One thing is certain: It doesn't matter, really, what anyone's motives "might be" for raising a complaint...no substantive complaint can be dismissed out of hand on the basis of such speculations. The fact that a complaint is motivated by elements of anger, self-interest, jealousy, etc., does not mean the complaint is not true, and it doesn't change anything about how the complaint is handled. It would only inform you, should it prove to be false, as to why they filed a false complaint. You can't assume it's false "up front" because the motives aren't "pure". Rarely, in fact, are they ever "pure"...there is usually some element of personal dislike or other self-interest behind most complaints, whether external or internal. Complaints against the police, for instance, are often raised by people who have been arrested or otherwise subjected to some police action. The complainant is angry about that. So what? You still have to deal with what they're saying about how the police conducted themselves.

    Complaints must be subjected to an established, appropriate process for fact-finding and proper disposition and the process, from start to finish, must be properly documented. And, it's erroroneous to think of this process as "hoops we have to jump through". Properly crafted, the process is what reveals the facts of the incident and distinguishes these from rumors, gossip and unproven allegations. If the complaint is unfounded, the process will reveal this.

    As such, the process actually facilitates, rather than hinders, appropriate disposition of the complaint. If it does not permit "knee-jerk" reactions such as some of those I've read here, so much for the better. Knee-jerk reactions will land your company in legal hot water (did I say "hot water"? I meant "boiling oil") 9 times out of 10.
    Last edited by SecTrainer; 07-28-2007, 02:55 PM.

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  • ValleyOne
    replied
    Originally posted by flashlightcop509 View Post
    OK, show me exactly where in my first post I said anything other than a "signed statement"... No mention of notary, no 3 witness signatures, and I ain't on no high horse...
    Actually, I think that was a shot at another member who stated his company's policy regarding complaint filed against one of their own...

    At least that's how I took it to be....

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  • Christopherstjo
    replied
    Originally posted by flashlightcop509 View Post
    Anyway, the Officer that initially interviewed the female involved has contacted our company's 2nd in charge, and relayed the information to him; The female did state that if necessary, she would speak with said number 2 boss directly and let him know exactly what was what. I just figured that it would have made things more difficult without a written statement from the female...
    That's cool and all that but like I said: Based on your initial post, she was fine with things all up to the point that she found out the Officer was cheating on her with another lady friend. Sounds more like she wants revenge rather than genuinely feeling sexually harassed.

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  • flashlightcop509
    replied
    OK, first of all, "Team Leader" at my site pretty much means that Myself and one other Officer have been at that particular post the longest... It is not meant as a "supervisory" title per se, so any disciplinary action to be taken regarding this Officer will be coming from the corporate office; That kind of decision is not within my authority to make. And perhaps I should have worded my initial post a little better, I was trying to get a general concensus of what others would consider an appropriate action to take, I didn't intend it to come across as an "Omigod, what do I do?" kind of statement...

    Anyway, the Officer that initially interviewed the female involved has contacted our company's 2nd in charge, and relayed the information to him; The female did state that if necessary, she would speak with said number 2 boss directly and let him know exactly what was what. I just figured that it would have made things more difficult without a written statement from the female...

    LOL: signed affidavit... notarized... 3 witness signatures. Get off your high horse.
    OK, show me exactly where in my first post I said anything other than a "signed statement"... No mention of notary, no 3 witness signatures, and I ain't on no high horse...

    If someone at your site has a complaint or an issue that needs to be followed up on, don't you think it would be beneficial to have it in writing and signed by the complaintant?

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  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by Maelstrom View Post
    10-4!


    I haven't heard 10 codes used since the days of early CB radio
    Montreal Police, Fire Department & the Provincially run Ambulance service still use 10-codes. It actually helped me when I was younger & dud not understand French as well as I do now. I knew how to count in French! All communications by the Fire Department & Ambulance are in French. 2 English speaking police officers might speak English to each other but all calls are given in French. What is worst is that all 3 10-codes are different! The police also use other number codes eg 001=Murder, 006 = Attempted murder, 638 = fight +++
    Last edited by HotelSecurity; 07-28-2007, 06:48 AM.

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  • Maelstrom
    replied
    Originally posted by EMTGuard View Post
    While you may know what 10-44 and 10-45 means but the rest of us are left guessing. Follow the lead of Fire and Police agencies and drop the 10 codes.
    10-4!


    I haven't heard 10 codes used since the days of early CB radio

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  • CorpSec
    replied
    Your company should have a Human Resources department or a person that is assigned that function. They should take the lead in this and you should follow their directions.

    As a supervisor, that is exactly what I would do. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned is what they say. This woman could be lying and you must be careful not to take adverse action against his employment for possibly unfounded statements.

    Are there policies explicitly outlawing this type of behavior? She doesn't say that any of it wasn't consensual.

    When I did patrol for a previous company, it wasn't uncommon for guys to bring their girlfriends out with them from time to time. It wasn't authorized and could have certainly gone south in a hurry if there was an accident or incident. But, I don't think anyone thought a supervisor would do anything more than tell then tell them to knock it off.

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  • EMTGuard
    replied
    One of the things brought up in ICS/NIMS training is the move to drop use of 10 Codes in favor of plain speech. Why? Because the 10 codes are not universal.
    While you may know what 10-44 and 10-45 means but the rest of us are left guessing. Follow the lead of Fire and Police agencies and drop the 10 codes.
    Thanks.

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  • Bern Wheaton
    replied
    Well I have a question ,if your a team leader which means your in charge, and myself If i was in charge of this guy and didn't want to make it like I wasn't doing my job as a team leader why didn't you go ask him first ,talk with him,instead of going up the ladder with it,isn't it better to take care of the problem as a leader, see if it is true and if it is go from there?

    There are so many options you could have done,unless your hands are tied as a team leader.

    For being a supervisor at any site or post which ever, you do not take sides you are there for you people and must investigate it ,then if it is true and he knows the post orders deal with it then.

    Isn't there someone to check up on the guys there?

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  • Andy Taylor
    replied
    Originally posted by Christopherstjo View Post
    I believe the issue needs to be addressed even if only to make it clear to the Officer that a complaint has been filed and [if] he did not do anything then he might want to be extra careful so as not to be in situations where she might make further allegations against him. On the other hand [if] he did do this, then he clearly knows that its' now common knowledge and he had better knock it off.

    I would not approach it in an accusatory manner; simply state the facts and see what he has to say. However, I do not prescribe to the notion that just because a man is accused of sexual harassment he must be guilty because he is a man. Unfortuately, this is can be a problem men face when being accused of such serious offenses with little to no evidence (other than an mere allegation) backing up the allegation and companies can sometimes fall prey to the pitfall of over-reacting when such allegations are made.

    Sexual harassment does not occur, however, where both parties were willing participants in the situation and clearly she was - she got ticked off only because she found out that he was already with someone and that [appears] to be the basis of her making the allegations, not because she [appears] to genuinely feel she was sexually harassed - based on what I read from the initial post.

    Amazingly enough, I agree with this completely.

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  • Christopherstjo
    replied
    I believe the issue needs to be addressed even if only to make it clear to the Officer that a complaint has been filed and [if] he did not do anything then he might want to be extra careful so as not to be in situations where she might make further allegations against him. On the other hand [if] he did do this, then he clearly knows that its' now common knowledge and he had better knock it off.

    I would not approach it in an accusatory manner; simply state the facts and see what he has to say. However, I do not prescribe to the notion that just because a man is accused of sexual harassment he must be guilty because he is a man. Unfortuately, this is can be a problem men face when being accused of such serious offenses with little to no evidence (other than an mere allegation) backing up the allegation and companies can sometimes fall prey to the pitfall of over-reacting when such allegations are made.

    Sexual harassment does not occur, however, where both parties were willing participants in the situation and clearly she was - she got ticked off only because she found out that he was already with someone and that [appears] to be the basis of her making the allegations, not because she [appears] to genuinely feel she was sexually harassed - based on what I read from the initial post.
    Last edited by Christopherstjo; 07-27-2007, 01:38 PM.

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  • Maelstrom
    replied
    Fact is people do make unfounded allegations whether for revenge or just being spiteful, you really do need to hear this other Officer's version of events before any punitive measures take place...

    As somebody has already suggested, is there any CCTV footage from the site's this Officer was allegedly acting unprofessionally?
    Last edited by Maelstrom; 07-27-2007, 09:48 AM.

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  • ValleyOne
    replied
    Originally posted by BadBoynMD View Post
    Welp, my companies policy states that a written complaint must be filled out, signed AND notarized. If a person goes as far as to have all this done, specially on a legal document, then there maybe cause to pursue a investigation. If not, then oh well. We're all human and feelings happen. However, certain professional lines shouldn't be crossed. Sounds like playa-playa needs a good arse chewing behind closed doors.
    So unless someone jumps threw all these hoops your company won't get off it's arse to do anything? Nothing like throwing up a wall for a complaintant to climb over.

    Does your company know that there may be repercussions that could arise from neglecting verbal complaints? Ever hear of Vicarious Liability? Or, does a Verbal Complaint have to be Notorized as well?

    I agree he needs to be sat down given a talking to. Then based on what you learn take appropriate action.

    Me personally, I would fire his a$$ if he admitted to leaving his assigned area, false reports, anything misleading and/or dishonest.

    Don't most companies have policy that states basically no employee shall create and/or maintain a personal (intimate???) relationship with any of our clients? IE, DO NOT Fraternize with clients...

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  • BoyInBlue
    replied
    What is this 5th grade? Grow a pair and talk to the guy. I'll help you:

    YOU: Hey Billy are you messing around with Jane?
    BILLY: Ummm... yea we're seeing each other.
    YOU: OK. Well you need to knock it off, or do it on your own time, someone complained.

    LOL: signed affidavit... notarized... 3 witness signatures. Get off your high horse.

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  • Christopherstjo
    replied
    Of course, it could also be that she found out that he has a girlfriend, got up set because she wanted him; decided to make up the story and so on and so on. Personally, without an actual statement I would not take any action; at least with a written / signed statement the story has more credibility.

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