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  • Ewfr 'Gomulee
    replied
    Originally posted by tattedupboy View Post
    I'm pretty sure that there have been previous forums on this topic, but I want to discuss it again. Basically, I'm starting this thread out of curiosity simply to find out what all of you carry while at work (by that I mean firearms, as well as other duty belt accessories such as extra ammo, flashlight, handcuffs, etc.). Also, do you or are you allowed to carry an extra firearm, concealed or unconcealed? Are your duty weapon and duty belt accessories your own, or were they given to you by the company?

    I carry a 9mm Hi Point C9 as my duty weapon (I bought it and all my duty belt accessories; I only purchased the Hi Point because it was all I could afford, so please take it easy on me.). It and all my duty belt accessories were purchased by me. My duty belt is set up like so:

    OC spray located at 12:30
    keeper located at 2:00
    firearm located at 3:00
    21-inch ASP located at 4:00
    keeper located at 5:00
    pocketknife located at approximately 5:30
    handcuffs located at approximately 6:30
    keeper located at 7:00
    double magazine pouch located at 8:00
    surefire flashlight located at 9:00
    keeper located at approximately 9:30
    cell phone located at 10:30
    600,000 volt stun gun located at 11:30

    Everything is nylon, except for the keepers, which are basketweave, and my baton holder, which is a polycarbonate plastic.
    I think a lot of you Americans would laugh at my belt, has NOTHING like guns or tasers attached to it. Aside from my torch, which I do not use that often, there's nothing that can be considered an offencive weapon so it's basically just a gloryfied first aid kit.
    Obviously I've got my first aid pouch (used to have a green one with the first aid symbol on it... but it broke)
    Key holder (Jingle Jingle)
    Radio pouch
    Glove Pouch (Contains 3 pairs of Blue Nitrile medical gloves)
    EU Version of Sega Dreamcast logo phone pouch (the blue one, for keeping one's mobile phone safe)
    and
    Both of my, required by law, SIA Licenses (Security Guarding and CCTV Public Space Surveillance)

    Again, no handcuffs, no guns, no tasers...

    Oh and I almost forgot, my first aid kit also has a few extras like a first aid note book, I can keep track of equipment use and also log incidents incase of any further enquiries from Police or Medical personnel.
    It's also got two picture translaters, I come across lots of different people from different cultures and quite a few of them cannot speak or understand English so it's easier to connect the pictures to create a message (Think of connect the dots)
    I usually keep my 'Her Majesty's Courts Service' ID Badge on my shirt in a badge holder so that it's easy to see.

    I've attached a picture of the belt, nothing fancy :P

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeMama
    replied
    My last armed gig had my gear as follows <Belt buckle moving clockwise>

    Double magazine pouch, horizontal, flaps pointed left (Bianchi Accumold)
    Key ring (personal keys, minimal)
    OC case (Uncle Mike's, MK3 size, issue)
    Glock 22 in Bianchi Accumold 7120 (both issue)
    26" ASP in Uncle Mike's case (both issue)
    Glove Pouch (about 4:30)
    Peerless cuff in a single Uncle Mike's case (both personal, about 8 o' clock)
    "D" flashlight ring at 9 o' clock (didn't carry a light in it my last five years)
    Radio (Motorola MTX9000, company issue, about 9:30)
    Company Cisco IP phone usually clipped to left pocket
    Personal phone at 10:30
    Peerless cuff in a single Uncle Mike's case (both personal, just left of buckle)


    The holster, baton and OC case locations were mandated. They also preferred to place other items in certain places but they agreed to let me do my thing since I was not a rookie and had already been armed for four years before coming to work for them and they didn't want to change my muscle memory.

    Leave a comment:


  • rpmacmurphy
    replied
    For my current site, we wear vests instead belts. My vest has a crossdraw holster on the lower left side and 3 magazine pouches on the lower right. (from my point of view) On my chest, there is an admin pouch with my identification in plain sight as well as a sheath carrying a Massad Ayoob Razorback.

    I have my cuffs located at the small of back and a hydration pouch about them. Beneath my left arm is a utility pouch and beneath my right arm is a flashlight pouch.

    Leave a comment:


  • DTI
    replied
    Duty Belt from Right to left: handcuffs, keeper, baton, keeper, multitool, keeper, med gloves, radio, surefire 6P. keys

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeMama
    replied
    Originally posted by Curtis Baillie View Post
    Are you sure? Obama said he has visited 57 states.

    The other seven can detain only on alternating days of the week

    Leave a comment:


  • zm88
    replied
    Originally posted by Warrior View Post
    I agree with you, but the problem with citizens arrest and using cuffs on someone is it leaves you open to great liability. In the end a guard is a private citizen, with the same powers as my grandma at the nursing home.

    I live in PA, PA law allows citizens to make arrests or detain a person under certain circumstances but the police are under no obligation to complete the arrest if they aren't convinced that there was a crime. This is why those that are not police officers should be very, very careful before deciding to arrest someone. I am sure most states have similar laws. And you know what happens to a police officer if he arrests someone where no crimes were committed? What do you think happens to a SO?

    Are you going to risk losing your life, go to jail or get sued because stole something from your employer? The best thing to do is call the police.

    I stress, the two best friends a guard can have is shoes and a phone. Many guards that don't sit at a station all day walk a lot. Good shoes will protect you from strain, aches, and a lot of problems in your health down the road. Instead of spending hundreds of dollars of crap you will never use or need, buy better shoes than what is on sale at WalMart. I have seen people with crappy cheap shoes spend money on worthless items, like a badge wallet and flashlights so powerful they almost blind the person using it.

    Also, a good cell phone is needed, one that has reception in places that has a lot of interference, such as warehouses, hospitals. When it really comes down to it, the SO's main job is to observe and report, not arrest people.

    I worked security in some nice places and a few high crime areas. I worked at one place that all night long I could hear gunfire and some of the windows being smashed in the warehouse. Did I go looking for these guys to arrest them? Hell no!! Why should I die to protect a company's property, they even didn't expect me to do that. I called the police.

    I would imagine most places you are posted to don't want you performing citizens arrests. That also leaves them open to liability that may arise if your arrest is proven in error.

    And lets take about batons. Those are deadly weapons that can cause great bodily harm and kill someone. If you end up actually using it, be prepared for a lawsuit. If you are a SO, and you work in a place that is so dangerous you don't feel safe working at a place without being armed like Rambo, then don't work there. It is not worth it. I only stayed two nights at the warehouse I worked at were people were always breaking in. You think as a unarmed security guard with no back up that I am going to try and take down a drug addict trying to steal someone property?

    I can best some it up from a quote from the movie about security guards, Armed and Dangerous:

    Guard: ..if I detain a shoplifter, and he turns out to be innocent...
    ...and he sues me for a million dollars...
    ...what happens?
    Boss:What happens?
    You spend the rest of your life paying for it.
    And you die miserable and broke.
    So don't screw up.
    The way the economy and job market is I envy the person who can decide to turn down a job because they feel the areas unsafe. As another poster said every state does it differently. I'm a strong advocate for proper training of security and no one should bevtasked with or carryvsuch equipment if not properly trained in its use. But you can't say that you'll automatically get sued while doing the job your given. Each site is different, different client/needs which is why contracts will be tailored for the needs/wants of the client. You also have security that are licensed special police officers, who will book the suspect etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • jtwestern
    replied
    mac,

    BS flag is thrown.

    You are on the way to losing your GC and any other card you carry with the attitude you have. Should you call and I respond, I will be reviewing your actions and WE CAN take action against you with BSIS. Your comments regarding baton use shows how niave you are.

    Cool your jets.

    Leave a comment:


  • macguard
    replied
    Originally posted by Warrior View Post
    Thats why companys hire armed guards and undercover LP to protect and recover
    their merchantdise and its employees.
    They hire for the reasons you say, but they do not expect you to act like police officers to do the job. They do not expect you to perform citizen’s arrest in most cases. Once the shoplifter is off the property, you cannot go chase after them as the police can. As far as recovering merchandise, yes you can do that if you find it on a shoplifter on company property. You cannot, as the police can, get a search warrant for their house. Let us put it this way. What do most places do with a shoplifter when they are caught? They call the police.
    You know if you ever worked in LP all you gotta do is your 6 steps of apprehension.
    Depending on where you work and company policy. The cops only come after you made an arrest and processed them.
    I worked at some accounts at some high end retailers where the LP chased people down and handcuff them outside the store while they are fighting back.They get sued a lot but I geuss some places are willing to deal with it with good lawyers.
    I seen some high end retailers willing to do whatever it takes to get there
    $10,000 handbag back.
    Have you ever called the police even if in an emergency? Whats their average response time ? Most of the time their response time is from 5-10 minutes emergency. and possibly even longer in non-emergency. Its just enough time for them to get away thats why the States gives us the Power to Arrest

    Leave a comment:


  • Curtis Baillie
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeMama View Post
    There are 50 U.S. states with 50 different ways of doing things.

    Unless it has changed, SC gave security officers the same arrest powers of the Sheriff of the county while they are on the property they are paid to protect. The local law enforcement had no choice on transporting someone under arrest, they are just transportation.
    Are you sure? Obama said he has visited 57 states.

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeMama
    replied
    Originally posted by Warrior View Post
    In the end a guard is a private citizen, with the same powers as my grandma at the nursing home.

    I live in PA, PA law allows citizens to make arrests or detain a person under certain circumstances but the police are under no obligation to complete the arrest if they aren't convinced that there was a crime.


    There are 50 U.S. states with 50 different ways of doing things.

    Unless it has changed, SC gave security officers the same arrest powers of the Sheriff of the county while they are on the property they are paid to protect. The local law enforcement had no choice on transporting someone under arrest, they are just transportation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Warrior
    replied
    You know that the Police have no duty to protect individuals.
    You are using a straw man argument here. However, I will oblige you.

    I understand what you are saying in your comment; however, it really is not accurate. Police have statutory arrest authority, which means that they can arrest someone even if they do not witness a crime, something a citizen cannot do. If they do see a crime committed, or are informed of a crime, they have to respond. If you look at the civil code of most towns, you will see the police are required to protect the public in their community. In most areas you can go to jail for failure to report a crime. A good example is this mess with the Penn State Sex Scandal. So how do you think that a police officer can know of a crime and ignore it?


    Thats why companys hire armed guards and undercover LP to protect and recover
    their merchantdise and its employees.
    They hire for the reasons you say, but they do not expect you to act like police officers to do the job. They do not expect you to perform citizen’s arrest in most cases. Once the shoplifter is off the property, you cannot go chase after them as the police can. As far as recovering merchandise, yes you can do that if you find it on a shoplifter on company property. You cannot, as the police can, get a search warrant for their house. Let us put it this way. What do most places do with a shoplifter when they are caught? They call the police.


    At least I know I have job security
    Those cops don't wanna be here it'll take an act of god for them to show up sometimes,
    especially at night.
    So if you get in trouble, who do you call, your supervisor? Your neighbor so he can do a citizen’s arrest? I would imagine if you were somewhere being shot at, the call you would make is to 911 and beg them to send the police, not the dogcatcher. Granted, they might not run over if you discover that the property was broken into last night, or that somebody got in a fender bender in the parking lot. Depending where you are, many cops have multiple calls that they are responding do, having to triage their calls from lifethreating to nonlifethreating.

    "A California law states that “neither a public entity nor a public employee is liable for failure to establish a police department or otherwise provide police protection service. As one California appellate court wrote, “police officers have no affirmative statutory duty to do anything.”
    California Government Code, § 845.
    Souza v. City of Antioch, 62 California Reporter, 2d 909, 916 (Cal. App. 1997).
    Not all towns have to provide police protection. What does that have to do with anything? Some towns are so small they cannot afford it. Some are large like Compton, Ca that cannot afford it. They usually have the sheriff or state police provide protection. Tell me of one town in California that does not have police protection provided by a municipal, county, or a state agency. Show me anywhere in the United States that is not under the jurisdiction of some type of law enforcement agency.


    Batons aren't dangerous weapons if you are trained on how to use it properly. Same goes with everything else
    How many SOs have you met that were trained to work with a baton and you feel that they know what they are doing? Police use a baton usually when they are trying to perform an arrest and not shoot the person. The only reason a guard should be using it is to defend their lives, and that it. There should never be another circumstance that you should need it. I have seen SOs pull out a baton for the dumbest reasons.

    THE POLICE HAVE "NO AFFIRMATIVE DUTY"
    TO PROTECT US
    This makes it very clear - the burden to defend and or use deadly force, is a RIGHT that lies with you personally to ACT accordingly and appropriately should you fear for your life and/or limb.
    Off course it is. There isn’t a cop in every house. They can’t be everywhere. Again, if you are in danger, who are you going to call?
    Next time you someone is trying to harm you, call a firefighter.
    Last edited by Warrior; 12-07-2011, 04:28 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • macguard
    replied
    You know that the Police have no duty to protect individuals.
    Thats why companys hire armed guards and undercover LP to protect and recover
    their merchantdise and its employees.

    If they send my rear to work in the middle of the hood with no backup
    you bet I am gonna be more armed then rambo.

    At least I know I have job security
    Those cops don't wanna be here it'll take an act of god for them to show up sometimes,
    especially at night.

    "A California law states that “neither a public entity nor a public employee is liable for failure to establish a police department or otherwise provide police protection service. As one California appellate court wrote, “police officers have no affirmative statutory duty to do anything.”
    California Government Code, § 845.
    Souza v. City of Antioch, 62 California Reporter, 2d 909, 916 (Cal. App. 1997).


    Batons aren't dangerous weapons if you are trained on how to use it properly. Same goes with everything else
    THE POLICE HAVE "NO AFFIRMATIVE DUTY"
    TO PROTECT US
    This makes it very clear - the burden to defend and or use deadly force, is a RIGHT that lies with you personally to ACT accordingly and appropriately should you fear for your life and/or limb.
    Last edited by macguard; 12-07-2011, 03:11 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Warrior
    replied
    Originally posted by zm88 View Post
    It depends on your company policy, your site and your duties. If you're expected to work in a high crime area and are allowed to detain or perform citizens arrest then you should have all the necessary tools to effect such arrest. Working in a guard shack, or acting more as a concierge then good shoes and a phone would be appropriate.
    I agree with you, but the problem with citizens arrest and using cuffs on someone is it leaves you open to great liability. In the end a guard is a private citizen, with the same powers as my grandma at the nursing home.

    I live in PA, PA law allows citizens to make arrests or detain a person under certain circumstances but the police are under no obligation to complete the arrest if they aren't convinced that there was a crime. This is why those that are not police officers should be very, very careful before deciding to arrest someone. I am sure most states have similar laws. And you know what happens to a police officer if he arrests someone where no crimes were committed? What do you think happens to a SO?

    Are you going to risk losing your life, go to jail or get sued because stole something from your employer? The best thing to do is call the police.

    I stress, the two best friends a guard can have is shoes and a phone. Many guards that don't sit at a station all day walk a lot. Good shoes will protect you from strain, aches, and a lot of problems in your health down the road. Instead of spending hundreds of dollars of crap you will never use or need, buy better shoes than what is on sale at WalMart. I have seen people with crappy cheap shoes spend money on worthless items, like a badge wallet and flashlights so powerful they almost blind the person using it.

    Also, a good cell phone is needed, one that has reception in places that has a lot of interference, such as warehouses, hospitals. When it really comes down to it, the SO's main job is to observe and report, not arrest people.

    I worked security in some nice places and a few high crime areas. I worked at one place that all night long I could hear gunfire and some of the windows being smashed in the warehouse. Did I go looking for these guys to arrest them? Hell no!! Why should I die to protect a company's property, they even didn't expect me to do that. I called the police.

    I would imagine most places you are posted to don't want you performing citizens arrests. That also leaves them open to liability that may arise if your arrest is proven in error.

    And lets take about batons. Those are deadly weapons that can cause great bodily harm and kill someone. If you end up actually using it, be prepared for a lawsuit. If you are a SO, and you work in a place that is so dangerous you don't feel safe working at a place without being armed like Rambo, then don't work there. It is not worth it. I only stayed two nights at the warehouse I worked at were people were always breaking in. You think as a unarmed security guard with no back up that I am going to try and take down a drug addict trying to steal someone property?

    I can best some it up from a quote from the movie about security guards, Armed and Dangerous:

    Guard: ..if I detain a shoplifter, and he turns out to be innocent...
    ...and he sues me for a million dollars...
    ...what happens?
    Boss:What happens?
    You spend the rest of your life paying for it.
    And you die miserable and broke.
    So don't screw up.
    Last edited by Warrior; 12-07-2011, 01:49 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • macguard
    replied
    Pepperspray left hip
    Baton right hip
    Handcuffs in the middle right behind me
    Good pair of shoes and cellphone
    Level 3 Kevlar vest with full military-style BDU that said SECURITY
    No radios or and the only backup I get is from Corporate office which is
    40 miles away
    All Binachi Accumold Nylon ( I really stay as far away from leather as possible)
    Thats for O&R but STHF pretty often. I get drunks,drug addicts,homeless
    and use to get some Occupy protesters trying to steal some camping stuff
    and every other dirtbag that comes into the store...Only time I get to put my hands on them is if they attack me first
    Trying to figure out where to put my flashlight and handcuffs.
    Last edited by macguard; 12-07-2011, 08:05 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • zm88
    replied
    Originally posted by Warrior View Post
    I only use to carry keys and some pepper spray, and I would only use that if I had to fight for my life. The best equipment and the most useful thing I bought was a good pair of shoes.

    I use to see some guys walk around with so much crap they sounded like Jacob Marley visiting Scrooge. I never understood needing batons, cuffs and all that crap. Most of the people I worked with I wouldn't trust to carry keys, let alone a baton that could crack someone's skull open. Try using that baton and make sure you hire a good lawyer.

    If I were a guard today, I would carry a phone to call for help, a good pair a shoes for walking my rounds and for running away from danger, and I would make sure (already am) to stay in good shape.
    It depends on your company policy, your site and your duties. If you're expected to work in a high crime area and are allowed to detain or perform citizens arrest then you should have all the necessary tools to effect such arrest. Working in a guard shack, or acting more as a concierge then good shoes and a phone would be appropriate.

    Leave a comment:

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