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  • #31
    Originally posted by K-9 Aussie View Post
    Nothing worse than having to worry about "keyhole up" when cuffing a struggling offender
    You don't worry about it if their struggling, you just get 'em on. Up here we worry about that later. If you gotta bend the bad guy over 180 degrees to get to your key hole you do so.
    ~Super Ninja Sniper~
    Corbier's Commandos

    Nemo me impune lacessit

    Grammical and Spelling errors may occur form time to time. Yoov bin worned

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by ValleyOne View Post
      You don't worry about it if their struggling, you just get 'em on. Up here we worry about that later. If you gotta bend the bad guy over 180 degrees to get to your key hole you do so.
      Exactly... If you are in a struggle, the last thing you should worry about is what direction the keyhole is facing. My opinion is, "Just get the damn things on".
      "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

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      • #33
        I put a lot of time and thought into getting my duty belt arranged "just right." After several years, I finally hit upon the combination that works for me, my anatomy, and what I am required to carry.

        1:00 Speedloader pouch
        2:00 Silent key holder (Uncle Mikes or Safariland Nylok are best)
        2:30 Issued POS revolver in Uncle Mikes holster
        4:00 (OC)*
        7:30 Asp - F21 as issued
        8:00 Surefire G2 in Nylok case (brightest light for least weight)
        9:00 (Radio)*
        10:30 Rubber gloves and micro CPR mask in pouch, as issued
        11:30 Issued handcuffs

        *=Not issued, not authorized, but its where I'd put it if I could.

        I don't like anything behind my hips or on my back. In and out of a vehicle (office chair, nowadays), it's too hard on my back. I put the Surefire in front of the Asp because I kept catching it as I got out my car and popping the flap open on the Surefire case.

        I like the handcuffs as close to the center of my body as I can so I can grab them with either hand. Since I didn't want them in the small of my back (OUCH!), the go front and nearly-center.

        Asp is carried on my weak-side per current training and company policy (Liability issue, they say). It's a bit awkward to draw and extend in a hurry, but I can discretely draw it behind my back and hold it in the ready.

        I use eight keepers, because I don't like my stuff sliding around. I don't like constantly re-adjusting things. I am rather embarassed to admit but I just counted 'em up and I carry four handcuff keys hidden on my person. I'm not quite sure how I ended up with that many, but I did.

        After working armed for 15 years, this is what works for me and my situation. If I worked nights, I'd have a bigger flashlight (Stinger). If I went back to a semi-auto (oh-please-dear-God-in-heaven!), I would carry my spare mags vertically on my weak side and move the cuffs to 12:30.



        -- Frank
        Tommy Boy: "I can get a good look at a T-bone by sticking my head up a bull's a$&, but I'd rather take a butcher's word for it. "

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        • #34
          Bianchi basket weave black leather everything.
          * Cell phone at 11 oclock
          * Cuff case at ten
          * latex glove case at nine
          * radio at three
          * key keeper at two
          All the rest of my gear goes in my vest carrier.
          ( I have to keep the back of my belt clear as I sit in a vehicle most of the shift)

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          • #35
            I never thought of time for my duty belt, and that confuse me for a second,but if it works for you that is cool!
            One black belt
            Banchi black holster (the JUDGE)
            One set of speed loaders
            S&W 357 magnum
            keepers
            Handcuff case and peerless cuffs
            Minnie light and case
            One baton holder
            And knuckle gloves (black)

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by davis002 View Post
              Exactly... If you are in a struggle, the last thing you should worry about is what direction the keyhole is facing. My opinion is, "Just get the damn things on".

              It's a huge issue here to handcuff someone. If/when we arrest someone over here we can only handcuff if the offence is serious enough i.e. they have committed a bag snatch or raped someone and tried to escape. I only wish our system was as good as yours over in the USA. Make it a lot safer for all involved

              Here are two photos of both my non-firearm belt and my firearm belt set-ups
              Attached Files
              A well trained dog is worth 10 men!

              I can recall my dog, but I can never recall a fired bullet!

              Would you prefer me to use the dog, the Glock, the baton or the O.C. spray? It's your health insurance so you decide. Alternatively there is always the handcuffs, followed by the Police with the court house preceeding rapidly after. Now which service would you like me to utilise

              Comment


              • #37
                If/when we arrest someone over here we can only handcuff if the offence is serious enough i.e. they have committed a bag snatch or raped someone and tried to escape.
                Whoa...

                What about the old "I'm placing you in handcuffs for your safety and my own" kinda thing? That statement alone should pretty much explain to the dude why he is getting cuffed , without necessarily being placed "under arrest"; However, in the "Hospitality Industry" sector as is my case, I have the same arrest authority as say, 80 year old Mr. Smith walking his dachsund down the street...

                Any type of individual who is/has demonstrated combative or abusive actions, dare I say just a bit on the "Flakey" side and acting as such, or who appears as though they are ready to escalate an incident beyond what a "reasonable" person would do; My first thought would to be cuff him, carefully explaining to him the aforementioned statement and that he was not under arrest (up until this point anyway..) until a LEO arrived to take custody of the subject and take the SO's statement and that of witnesses to whatever took place, and then let the LEO make the determination of wether to make a formal arrest or not...

                Either way, just make sure you get your cuffs back...
                “Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left”
                "I swear to God, I'm going to pistol whip the next guy that says 'Shenanigans' "... Capt. O'Hagan, "Super Troopers"

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by flashlightcop509 View Post
                  Whoa...

                  What about the old "I'm placing you in handcuffs for your safety and my own" kinda thing? That statement alone should pretty much explain to the dude why he is getting cuffed , without necessarily being placed "under arrest"; However, in the "Hospitality Industry" sector as is my case, I have the same arrest authority as say, 80 year old Mr. Smith walking his dachsund down the street...

                  Any type of individual who is/has demonstrated combative or abusive actions, dare I say just a bit on the "Flakey" side and acting as such, or who appears as though they are ready to escalate an incident beyond what a "reasonable" person would do; My first thought would to be cuff him, carefully explaining to him the aforementioned statement and that he was not under arrest (up until this point anyway..) until a LEO arrived to take custody of the subject and take the SO's statement and that of witnesses to whatever took place, and then let the LEO make the determination of wether to make a formal arrest or not...

                  Either way, just make sure you get your cuffs back...

                  Absolutely not "down under"! I know exactly what you're saying and I agree with you 200%, and we should be allowed to handcuff for the offenders safety and your own, but no over here they must have committed a serious offence and that requires them to be detained until the Police arrive, and the minute you detain someone here they are automatically under arrest.

                  I've been vocal for years, after one night whilst on patrol it took 10 bouncers to pin a guy down ad I could see this guy was going to get crushed and die from affixiation due to his chest being crushed. The bouncers wanted him charged so I cuffed the guy and held him til the Police arrived. He later was found not guilty of assault in court and then tried to sue me for $750,000 because he claimed the handcuffs hurt his wrists and as he was a house painter he couldn't paint anymore. The mater was dismissed from court but it still cost me personally $15,000AUD as my employer at the time didn't have public liability so I had to pay for my own solicitor and barrister.

                  It didn't mater the fact I'd shown and extended my "duty of care" to the offender, bouncers and members of the public caught up in the incident tho. I don't agree with this and call it a common sense decission to cuff someone for their own safety as well as mine and the publics, but it just can't be done here
                  A well trained dog is worth 10 men!

                  I can recall my dog, but I can never recall a fired bullet!

                  Would you prefer me to use the dog, the Glock, the baton or the O.C. spray? It's your health insurance so you decide. Alternatively there is always the handcuffs, followed by the Police with the court house preceeding rapidly after. Now which service would you like me to utilise

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Roight....

                    Methinks you need a new, less "PC" format of Arrest guidelines...

                    Preferably by a guy wearing black leather and a bronze shield, and driving a yellow, blue and red Ford Falcon...
                    “Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left”
                    "I swear to God, I'm going to pistol whip the next guy that says 'Shenanigans' "... Capt. O'Hagan, "Super Troopers"

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Here in California, we can't detain, only arrest. But once we have decided to arrest, the cuffs go on reguardless. I even cuffed a nine year old for theft of a pokemon card once.
                      "Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists. " Author Unknown

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by flashlightcop509 View Post
                        Roight....

                        Methinks you need a new, less "PC" format of Arrest guidelines...

                        Preferably by a guy wearing black leather and a bronze shield, and driving a yellow, blue and red Ford Falcon...

                        No complaints here

                        Honestly it needs to be like a majority of the USA, that being the offender can be handcuffed for their own safety, where it's necessary to detain them til Police arrive and also whenever an arrest has been made.
                        A well trained dog is worth 10 men!

                        I can recall my dog, but I can never recall a fired bullet!

                        Would you prefer me to use the dog, the Glock, the baton or the O.C. spray? It's your health insurance so you decide. Alternatively there is always the handcuffs, followed by the Police with the court house preceeding rapidly after. Now which service would you like me to utilise

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ValleyOne View Post
                          I know I've been kinda distant, ok I've been away for a while, but just how 'rough' does it get that you need approx. 76 rounds for? (4 mags, 1 in the gun + 1 in the pipe @ 15 per mag)

                          Just seems odd that's all...

                          It's always better to have more rounds than you need than to need more than you have. What if you carried only one gun with a 10 round mag and you need that 11th shot? I always say the more, the better.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Handcuffs are the best route to go. My most wonderful memory of handcuffs is when I got a guy for grand Larceny. He was OK until his buddy showed up and then it was a tussle with the handcuffs and the other guy reaching for my weapon. lucky for me I had one cuff on him so I could swing him to the ground and slap my hand on my pistol and tell the other guy to back off!

                            What was funny about the whole thing is the police officer unhand cuff him .So he could put his own on and the guy ran off. After a hour chase we all caught him a block away.
                            Last edited by Bern Wheaton; 07-27-2007, 03:22 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by tattedupboy View Post
                              It's always better to have more rounds than you need than to need more than you have. What if you carried only one gun with a 10 round mag and you need that 11th shot? I always say the more, the better.
                              The point is that there is a line between 'being prepared' and being a Super Ninja. Does one really need that much ammo? Rememer I was inquiring about carrying 76 rnds.

                              If you work 50+ miles out in BFE, yeah perhaps. Because it's obvious your going to be on your own for a V E R Y long time till a Deputy or Trooper show up. But, being in or near practically any sized community? No. I am pretty sure that regardless of the agency if any cop hears of an active shooter situation involving a s/o vs. bad guy(s), they will be on scene in record time.

                              Besides, I don't think you'll ever need that 11th round, or even the 76th, if you get out and go to the range and practice often.
                              ~Super Ninja Sniper~
                              Corbier's Commandos

                              Nemo me impune lacessit

                              Grammical and Spelling errors may occur form time to time. Yoov bin worned

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                At the mall I worked at the duty belt consisted of...

                                (1) Key guard
                                (1) Motorolla Radio
                                (1) Pair of Handcuffs
                                (1) Asp Holder w. "The Pipe" Scan Wand [no Batons allowed there]
                                (1) Pair of latex gloves in special carrier

                                when working "Commissioned" posts [and more to the point Government Housing Complexes]

                                (1) Key guard
                                (1) Motorolla Radio
                                (1) Pair of Handcuffs
                                (1) Pair of latex gloves in carrier
                                (1) PR-24 FX baton in PR-24 swivel holder
                                (1) USGI .45ACP pistol w. 8 round magazine + 1,
                                cocked & locked in LV III retention holster (Safariland)
                                (3) spare 8-round magazines in double pouch + single pouch.

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