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Criminals Should be Very Very Afraid of New Gun Law in Missouri

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  • #31
    Lockability Point Near Reached

    This thread is reaching the point where it is suggested to the administrator that it become locked, or a noderator starts deleting posts that are not on-topic.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #32
      Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
      This thread is reaching the point where it is suggested to the administrator that it become locked, or a noderator starts deleting posts that are not on-topic.
      Nathan, it is a skosh past that.
      Bill

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      • #33
        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
        This thread is reaching the point where it is suggested to the administrator that it become locked, or a noderator starts deleting posts that are not on-topic.
        Works for me.

        I tried to start a thread of value dealing with a new gun law and the manner that it might effect those in the private security industry because of the impacts this law has in criminal activity and the consequences that s/o's might face in the line of duty.

        A law such as the one just signed by Gov. Matt Blunt, holds far-reaching consequences that some suggest take us back in time, at least in minset, to the days of the old west, where the only true justice, was that handed down by the victims of criminal deeds playing judge, jury and executioner. And thus, one must wonder just how far we have truly advanced as a "civilized society" when laws such as this are passed out of the perceived necessity to protect life, liberty and property.
        Last edited by Christopherstjo; 07-09-2007, 02:43 AM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by LPGuy View Post
          Please do not post again unless you can cite a Missouri statute referring to your "two angles" theory.
          Don't expect him to post anything that supports his "two angle" theory... He has a severe problem answering any direct questions. Anyone who has observed his conduct on these forums will realize that he, in his own mind, is some sort of god and will twist any law to support his half-witted theories.

          That is merely my observation, and he can now reply with a "" instead of actually responding in any intelligent manner.
          "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Christopherstjo View Post
            And thus, one must wonder just how far we have truly advanced as a "civilized society" when laws such as this are passed out of the perceived necessity to protect life, liberty and property.
            I am more apt to be civilized around people if I know they could ice me.
            "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
            "The Curve" 1998

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Bill Warnock View Post
              Nathan, it is a skosh past that.
              Bill
              Yep. It appears we're about to go from friendly sharing of information/discussion to name calling/belittleing/flaming. Time to end this topic?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by BHR Lawson View Post
                I am more apt to be civilized around people if I know they could ice me.
                Although attributed to Robert Heinlein, I believe it was actually Mark Twain who first said: "An armed society is a polite society."

                Not that Robert Heinlein should be ignored. He did say some bright things:

                "The universe never did make sense. I suspect it was built on a government contract."

                "They didn't want it good. They wanted it Wednesday."

                "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."

                "You can have peace, or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at the same time."
                Last edited by SecTrainer; 07-09-2007, 01:08 PM.
                "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

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                • #38
                  "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
                  Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Christopherstjo View Post
                    And thus, one must wonder just how far we have truly advanced as a "civilized society" when laws such as this are passed out of the perceived necessity to protect life, liberty and property.
                    We can only hope for the day that our society will truly evolve into a highly civilized one, where car thiefs and intruders can hold you accountable for shooting them, because at the very least, they were civilized when they stole your car or broke into your home.

                    I imagine an evening out on the town, floating in your hovercar, when a impeccably dressed man appears on a jetpack and bows slightly in your direction. "Sir, how are you this evening? The opera was wonderful, was it not? Yes, yes, I too loved the second scene. I apologize for the inconvenience, but I'm just going to climb over you here while I hijack your Hovertran 600."

                    Then, you'll climb out of the car, bow slightly in return to the car thief, and say, "Sir, please make sure you wear your crash restraint while operating the Hovertran. Also, the anti-grav lifters have been sticking just a little bit upon take-off. *laugh* Yes, I know, it is a hassle sometimes. Oh, and it's been fully maintenanced in the last 3,000 cycles, so it should run smoothly!"

                    Then you'll both have a good laugh over what a good evening it's been, you'll wish the car thief well as he makes off with your Hovertran, and you'll take your lady friend home for the night via a taxi droid.

                    *sigh* I just so can't wait for the civilized future...

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                    • #40
                      Do not misunderstand me, I am as fed up with the crime rates, as any decent law abiding citizen is and I believe that every citizen has the constitutional right to protect himself or herself, and their property. I am just not sure, however, that passing laws such as this is the right course of action to take.

                      One could argue that it merely serves to pass the buck of responsibility from the government to the people, to do the jobs of the police and courts on the principle of inflicting "private justice." Thereby prescribing to the belief that "It is . . . a fact of law and of practical necessity that individuals are responsible for their own personal safety, and that of their loved ones. Police protection must be recognized for what it is: only an auxiliary general deterrent." (P. A. Kasler, (Self-Reliance for Self-Protection) (Sonoma, CA, Mesquite Mountain Press, 1991)).

                      Hence, while U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice, Earl Warren wrote in, “A Republic If You Can Keep It” (1972) that “A republic is not an easy form of government to live under, and when the responsibility of citizenship is evaded, democracy decays and authoritarianism takes over” (p.13). It can also be said that ""Necessity" is the excuse for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of the tyrant and the creed of the slave" (William Pitt (the Younger), November 1783).

                      Thus, laws such as this can quickly turn into the platform whereby citizens shoot citizens not because of an actual crime, but because of their ridicule, hate and intolerance for each other; their belief systems, racial and religious differences and so on, and then make it look like a crime was committed against them to justify the shooting.
                      Last edited by Christopherstjo; 07-09-2007, 04:15 PM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by BHR Lawson View Post
                        I am more apt to be civilized around people if I know they could ice me.
                        That does not make a civilized society but a society that lives in constant fear and surrenders as a result.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Christopherstjo View Post
                          That does not make a civilized society but a society that lives in constant fear and surrenders as a result.
                          Not hardly. Think of it more as a checks and balances idea. With more people armed out there, do you really think more people are likely to try to rob another person? It's going to be harder and harder to pick your targets out. A person who intends to committ no crime needs no reason to fear.
                          Last edited by Lawson; 07-09-2007, 04:30 PM.
                          "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                          "The Curve" 1998

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by BHR Lawson View Post
                            A person who intends to committ no crime needs no reason to fear.
                            While I appreciate what you are saying, I do not agree. When we arm citizens to the teeth and given them such broad authority to shoot each other - everyone has a reason to fear.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Christopherstjo View Post
                              Thus, laws such as this can quickly turn into the platform whereby citizens shoot citizens not because of an actual crime, but because of their ridicule, hate and intolerance for each other; their belief systems, racial and religious differences and so on, and then make it look like a crime was committed against them to justify the shooting.
                              And meanwhile, our criminal justice system and its investigators will be totally unable to determine that such an incident, were it to occur, was not a justified shooting.

                              Originally posted by Christopherstjo
                              When we arm citizens to the teeth and given them such broad authority to shoot each other - everyone has a reason to fear.
                              For some reason, I have a hard time buying your idea that a large percentage of otherwise law-abiding citizens have been eagerly awaiting the passage of just such a law for the chance to finally shoot someone.

                              I carry concealed all the time, nearly everywhere I go. Many of my friends and family know this, and have mentioned that they feel a little safer knowing that I can defend them and myself if a bad situation were to arise. Beyond myself, the only other people I know who generally carry concealed are all police officers. I look at my friends and family and can't help but worry about their safety if they were to be in a bad situation, being nearly defenseless.

                              The only thing that will change with the passage of Missouri's new law(s) will be fewer victims being prosecuted for defending their home or vehicle. A law such as this prevents a bleeding-heart prosecutor from trying a crime victim on a bogus manslaughter charge because "you could've escaped the situation instead of shooting the intruder." Groups of people are not going to start suddenly shooting each other in the streets and use this law as an excuse. The same law is in effect in other states, and there haven't been any problems.

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                              • #45
                                I dont carry concealed and I am safe.Peper spray here is far enough...even that it's illegal to spray someone.
                                Ain't war hell?

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