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  • Unarmed Hospital Security

    Does anyone else here work unarmed security at a Hospital? All we carry is a Motorola radio and rubber gloves, no defensive weapons what so ever. I carry a 4" S&W knife clipped in my pocket to "open" things. The pay is good but I hate the unarmed policy and nothing else in the area pays as well. The only reason I believe they don't want us armed is in might cut into the bottom dollar for raises for the board of directors.

  • #2
    We are unarmed and honestly I rather it be that way. At the hospital I work at we deal with way to many "HANDS ON" situation to be armed. I will not let my officers carry a knife if they want a defensive tool I issue them Surefire E2D flashlights. It is a blinding white light with a ring of teeth that can be used in a bad situation. A knife gun can be taken away from you and used by anyone. Even the police that come in to help us if it gets that bad will not go into the "rubber room" with a firearm.

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    • #3
      I work in a trauma 1 level hospital and we just started carrying the X26 tazers and we also carry a 26' ASP baton. I know one thing my duty belt is getting heavy with all of these things plus a flashlight, handcuffs, keys, gloves..ETC.

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      • #4
        If you work in a hospital long enough you will see that nurses and doctors are in a different mind frame then us. For one they see what happens to the human body when a bullet hits. Now before I get jumped I am a gun lover and carry one off duty. Even when we use CPI take down it upsets a few nurses because of how fast a violent it can look. I know it is our duty to protect the staff but if the staff feels you are being to rough they will go to there nurse manager. I for one would not want to carry a gun in a hospital setting.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by SSPine View Post
          If you work in a hospital long enough you will see that nurses and doctors are in a different mind frame then us. For one they see what happens to the human body when a bullet hits. Now before I get jumped I am a gun lover and carry one off duty. Even when we use CPI take down it upsets a few nurses because of how fast a violent it can look. I know it is our duty to protect the staff but if the staff feels you are being to rough they will go to there nurse manager. I for one would not want to carry a gun in a hospital setting.
          I don't know how many security officers you have on duty at a time, but it would seem like a good idea to have 1 officer armed. If nothing else, for the reason of stopping an active shooter early on in the attack.
          Last edited by Minneapolis Security; 07-04-2007, 02:22 PM. Reason: typo
          ATTN. SPECOPS AND GECKO45 my secret username is CIDDECEP and I am your S2. My authorization code is Six Wun Quebec Oscar Fife. Your presence here is tactically dangerous and compromises our overall mission parameter. Cease and desist all activity on this board. Our “enemies” are deft at computer hacking and may trace you back to our primary locale. You have forced me to compromise my situation to protect your vulnerable flank. This issue will be addressed later.

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          • #6
            We have 1 armed officer Thursday til Monday 1800-0200. Basically he is there for show. He is to stand in the ER lobby and make himself visible. That's it. I like to comment that those are the only hours that we allow armed aggresors into the hospital

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            • #7
              A hospital is a unique facility to secure because it has so many different elements to it. If you are in an urban or downtown setting with a high crime rate and you need something to protect yourself from the general public with, then being armed isn't a terrible thing. Its just when you introduce the health care aspect when firearms seem a little inappropriate. An ER nurse who is all about patient advocacy is going to look at a psych patient and be like he's just a poor misguided youth with mental problems why do you have to scare the kid with your authoritative uniforms and well equipped duty belts. Well the reason is we are a deterrent, and everyone knows that nurse is going to be complaining like crazy when the poor misguided patient bruises her and secuity didn't swoop in to save her life. So you need to take the complaints with an understanding of their own misguided perspective.

              You need to choose your methods and distinguish about what kind of calls you are answering.

              Assisting Staff with a Patient:
              We remove our firearms and secure them whenever entering an area where psych patients are under care. We have OC which I believe is helpful as a LAST RESORT after CPI. We are part of the "care giving" team and need to adopt a certain mindset. This is not a crazy person off the street, its a controlled environment and you have a team with you helping to take control of the patient. There is no reason to use certain types of force on a patient that you would use on the general public unless things get really really out of hand. For example, you don't handcuff a patient unless he has escaped the psych ward and you need to restrain him during transport back ONLY.

              Doing Anything With The Public:
              We are the defenders of defenseless patients sitting up in the hospital with all kinds of medical conditions, infections, cancers, broken bones, etc. We will do anything we have to in order to protect those patients and the safe environment of the hospital. We need guns, handcuffs, pepperspray, etc to deal with the people who threaten the status quo.

              Firearm policy is up to the people in charge and for right now they've decided you don't face significant enough threat compared to the risk of arming you in general. OC Pepperfoam is not a terrible alternative. Its a great self defense item in a hospital.

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              • #8
                I have to tell you I don't agree with armed hospital security if it is that bad, I think that the hospital should look at getting a police detail. For me and I am only speaking for myself. The level of training that one would need to use a firearm in a hospital setting would so high it would be impossible to hire at the wage we are able to offer. A hospital is a unique environment but it also is not a environment that is prone to being robbed. I understand that gang retaliation is a problem but if that is the case police should already be notified of a gunshot wound. I am a Army MP and have done Gunsight and Blackwater training courses and I would think twice about launching a bullet in a hospital. These courses that I speak of are not just shooting at paper targets they put you in a real world situation. I am sorry if I offend anyone by saying this but you have to admit that a lot of security guards take the job because they need money. The level of commitment to train with a firearm is just not there. As far as reporting a gunshot wound it is a fedral law so HIPPA does not come into play.
                Last edited by SSPine; 07-04-2007, 04:20 PM. Reason: thought of more things to add.

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                • #9
                  We currently carry OC foam and ASP batons, and just got Tasers authorized but they need to be ordered (the ok is that recent). We may be getting armed also in the near future because the physicians are demanding and armed presence beyond just Tasers and the local PD's won't do it.
                  Apparently a HUGE cop wannabe...

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SSPine View Post
                    I have to tell you I don't agree with armed hospital security if it is that bad, I think that the hospital should look at getting a police detail. For me and I am only speaking for myself. The level of training that one would need to use a firearm in a hospital setting would so high it would be impossible to hire at the wage we are able to offer. A hospital is a unique environment but it also is not a environment that is prone to being robbed. I understand that gang retaliation is a problem but if that is the case police should already be notified of a gunshot wound. I am a Army MP and have done Gunsight and Blackwater training courses and I would think twice about launching a bullet in a hospital. These courses that I speak of are not just shooting at paper targets they put you in a real world situation. I am sorry if I offend anyone by saying this but you have to admit that a lot of security guards take the job because they need money. The level of commitment to train with a firearm is just not there. As far as reporting a gunshot wound it is a fedral law so HIPPA does not come into play.
                    SSPine, if a hospital is such a dangerous environment your comment about a police sub-station or detachment is on target. It is indeed a shame that it has come to that, necessary nonetheless.
                    Enjoy the day,
                    Bill

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                    • #11
                      A couple of months back a S/O working at Truman Medical Center, herein KCMO, was shot because he instructed three disruptive males to leave the hospital. These s/o's are armed and put 9 rounds into the guy after he shot the s/o and yes, the PD determined it was a clean shoot.

                      I suppose the question of whether or not an s/o should be armed in any working environment is best answered in the degree of danger existing. It is not a guarantee that violence will not errupt but when you have a firearm at least you have a fighting chance - when you do not and crap hits the fan - well, its' good thing you work in a hospital.
                      Last edited by Christopherstjo; 07-05-2007, 01:31 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Why pull two police off the street where they can do some good when you can hire a couple of security officers to do the same job? Do you think the police shoot better than a well trained security officer? You would be wrong in many cases. I have always qualified as expert with my pistol on the Federal LAw Enforcement course (298 or 299), and I know a few police officers who can barely make the minimum of 210 to qualify.

                        Do you think a police officers judgement is better than mine? I am 54 years young with a world of experience behind me and a lot calmer in many situations than a rookie police officer would be.

                        No one needs to have a gun in the hospital until they NEED TO HAVE A GUN IN THE HOSPITAL! we lost a fine surgeon a few years ago because a patient walked in to see him and then shot him for some stupid reason. Could a police officer or security officer have stoppped him before he shot the doctor? Probably not. But if he had decided to walk down a corridor and shoot everyone he saw, a security officer could be there a lot quicker than the police.

                        In New Orleans, the security officers in one hospital I worked at carried up to 120 rounds of ammo and two guns because they often had to deal with gang members trying to attack them post Katrina. And guess what the hospital did, they bought 12 shotguns for them to use in case they needed them.

                        Why?

                        Because during Katrina, the police left the city and who was there to guard the hospital and staff left to care for patients that could not evacuate? Security officers who were getting paid just $9.00 an hour, thats who. And because of their work and the work of some police who disobeyed orders to stay there, the hospital managed to stay open.

                        Lives were saved because the hospital security had GUNS!

                        I have never had to shoot anybody and I hope I never have to. But I feel every qualified security officer needs to have that option in a position where lives could be at stake.

                        And you as a hospital administrator or security manager should be aware of it and be working to get your officers trained to that level and paid what they are worth, which is way more than minimum wage.

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                        • #13
                          I worked for a year in a hospital.Kingman is right.The thing is when you enter a ''secure" area you just need to be more cautious.

                          A good security guard with a good training would always be aware he is armed.And the first rule when you are is to protect your weapon at all cost.Or even keep it unloaded..Takes a couple of seconds to load it anyway and if grabbed a unloaded gun is useless.I got attacked bye a guy with a srynge once and all I had was rubber gloves.(he had aids).I backed off and told him I was going to hit him with my ASP.(I wasnt authorized to have an asp but I told them That my security was more Important then the rest etc..)And each 2-3 days me or my partners received death threats.Only one of them is needed to kill 2 or 3 officers.
                          Ain't war hell?

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                          • #14
                            Hospital Patrol I could not agree with you more!!

                            Myself and collegues do not have any weapons apart from radio and keys. Though if in need I do have a leatherman, but that is primarily for mantainance reasons ie locks etc. For the majority of us our best weapon is our mouths...and the majority of the time it works the best. For a lot of our work is with confused/agitated patients and for the most of it it is because they have not been told what is happening. If the patient knows that that we are there for them and explain to them why and what is happening and why the majority of thetime they can see sense and reasoning. Take downs, restraints, and police intervention is a last resort. There has been some debate at work about CS Spray and batons and handcuffs but the board is not convinced of it. Cuffs would be useful though.
                            Yes I also have had the unfortunate pleasure of a armed confortantion and through negiotation the situation was resolved and the weapons were seized and the offender was arrested. At the time I also had a sworn member of police with me but was also unarmed, but they stated after the incident that they would not had any problems in taking this person out, but now in hindsight we have a prisoner and not a casualty.

                            Not long ago we had a new influx of new employees majority are ok but we have a couple from the prison service and still think hat they are there. It has not worked with their methodology ie the big brother approach hence confrontation and injury to them. But myself and the majority of my collegues go in and to be understanding/sympathetic to the problems has worked will here most of the time.

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                            • #15
                              In a hospital the main trouble makers aren't patient.It's the people who visits them...

                              They want to go all at the same time in the patient room etc..
                              Ain't war hell?

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