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  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Well it was decided that they didn't do anything wrong! The transit commission released the results of it's investigation into the incident where the woman apparently was beaten while Security Agents stood by & watched. Here is the story from 940News a radio station in Montreal.

    http://www.940news.com/local.php?news=14829

    Leave a comment:


  • tlangsr
    replied
    Originally posted by kingsman View Post
    I guess I couldn't work only to observe and report. If I saw someone being assaulted, I would do something to stop the attack. I mean, how can you sit
    and watch another human being getting killed?
    I hate O&R. I would be porced to stand by my morals and the company would not back me if i did more than I'm required to do.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Another one on the same subject printed today:

    Irresponsible policy
    Re: “Guards abandon chase” (Gazette, July 17).


    Is Lily Robert of the Old Port telling me that my 8-year-old daughter could get raped or my 6-year-old son roughed up by thugs with knives while these “prevention-protection” guys watch and call the police? The message is clear: It’s safe to hit and run.


    Who is the inventor of this irresponsible, inadequate policy? Does it come from the police department, the mayor’s office or the provincial government?


    Jimmy Tanaka


    Verdun

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    The Montreal Gazette published my letter to the editor today:

    Public endangered
    Re: “Guards abandon chase” (Gazette, July 17).


    It seems yet another security force that protects the public is limited to observing and reporting only.


    The Old Port’s spokesperson explained the new orders given the force by saying: “In light of recent events, we fear for the security of the public, employees on the site and the security agents.”


    However if all security services on the island of Montreal took this approach, our already burdened police department would take even longer to respond to calls for help, putting more of the public in danger. Neil Fyckes


    Verdun

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  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Here is a letter to the editor from Wednesday July 18, 2007's Montreal Gazette. It is reaction to the Old Port of Montreal security story

    Misleading vest

    Letter


    Wednesday, July 18, 2007


    Re: "Guards abandon chase" (Gazette, July 17).

    If patrollers at the Old Port have "protection" written in large letters on their vests but do not intervene in cases of violence and stay at a safe distance at all times, then their vests are most misleading.

    If I were in trouble and ran to them for help, I would expect action on their part. Anyone can watch from a distance and do nothing. The Old Port should hire police who can be proactive and act to protect. We should not pay people to watch and allow suspects to run away.

    Solange Brunet

    Candiac

    © Author 2007

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  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by SP1 View Post
    The main problem with hotel security is that it is a dog and pony show. Most security falls under the authority of the FOM (Front Office Manager), who is focused on guest services and most, have no idea what security is or should be.

    Most hotel security personnel are unarmed and under O&R (observe and report) rules. Their job is mainly a catch all to perform non-related security work.

    At the hotel (Top chain) I work at, security performs night maid services, code 5’s (Stopped up toilets), closing and cleaning the pool area and collecting night trays and room service menus.

    The hotel has over 444 rooms, yet only one security person is on nightly and no security is provided during the day. We have CCTV cameras, but they are unmanned, and are set away from main concern areas such as the pool area (Liability issues), yet most courts have upheld that if a hotel has CCTV cameras, then they should also be monitored.

    Until security is placed under its own entity within the hotel industry, then this farce will continue and the guest will continue to be under a false sense of security.
    Welcome SP1.

    My downtown 488 room hotel is different. We hav24 hour a day security. We report to the Director of Security who works in the head office of the management company. He is also the chauffer for the owner & is in daily contact with him. He is on an equal level as the General Manager. We take no orders from the Front Desk Manager or Director of Maintenance, Rooms Division etc. Even the General Manager talks to our Director before.

    The old CP Rail hotels in Canada used to be run in a similar way. Security reported to the Chief of the Railways Police. I worked at an hotel once where the General Manager was crooked. There was nothing I could do. I can at my present hotel.

    We do not do Maintenance calls. (Blocked sinks, tvs not working etc). We do Houseman (delivering towels, cots etc) 2 nights a week only.

    At our smaller hotels (287 & 222 rooms) out by the airport where there is no action after midnight, we do like you. There is a Night Auditor & A Security. We do the Housekeeping & Maintenance calls. Also we have only overnight Security there.

    We are not O&R only. Downtown we average 40 noise complaints a month, mostly on Fridays & Saturdays. Of the 40 we call the police less than 1 time. We are part of the 2 man Fire Brigade etc

    Our cameras, like yours are unmonitored. To me the are practically useless. (Gives you a nice view of what happened but dodesn't prevent it & rarely helps in catching someone after it has happened.)
    Last edited by HotelSecurity; 07-18-2007, 05:47 PM.

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    When I was assigned to a Hilton, they had a full CCTV matrix.

    The general manager disabled the VCR for liability purposes (he didn't want anything used against his hilton), and even better... The security staff was specifically ordered never to be allowed near it.

    Security's job was to walk around and take towels, which thankfully wasn't in our post orders.

    Leave a comment:


  • SP1
    replied
    Hotel Security – An Oxymoron

    The main problem with hotel security is that it is a dog and pony show. Most security falls under the authority of the FOM (Front Office Manager), who is focused on guest services and most, have no idea what security is or should be.

    Most hotel security personnel are unarmed and under O&R (observe and report) rules. Their job is mainly a catch all to perform non-related security work.

    At the hotel (Top chain) I work at, security performs night maid services, code 5’s (Stopped up toilets), closing and cleaning the pool area and collecting night trays and room service menus.

    The hotel has over 444 rooms, yet only one security person is on nightly and no security is provided during the day. We have CCTV cameras, but they are unmanned, and are set away from main concern areas such as the pool area (Liability issues), yet most courts have upheld that if a hotel has CCTV cameras, then they should also be monitored.

    Until security is placed under its own entity within the hotel industry, then this farce will continue and the guest will continue to be under a false sense of security.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by bigshotceo View Post
    Do the STM security people still have their vests and nightsticks? If not I wouldn't blame them for not getting involved....
    THEY ARE NOT SEEN OFTEN ANY MORE BUT THE LAST TIME i SAW ONE (LAST WEEK), THEY DID. THEY STILL HAVE THE RED FLASHERS ON THEIR TRUCKS. (NOT RED & BLUE LIKE THE POLICE)

    Leave a comment:


  • bigshotceo
    replied
    Do the STM security people still have their vests and nightsticks? If not I wouldn't blame them for not getting involved....

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
    I take it that the Old Port is city? The "Prevention/Protection" thing sounds like what the police wear.
    The Vieux Port (Old Port) is a federal government Crown Corporation. It's an entertainment area, bicycling, roller blading, gift shops, Imax theater, science centre etc.

    Prevention/Protection is used because 1) it's bilingual, 2) the security force is trying to put it'self above the security guard image. (Then they make a decision like this!!!)

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Sure.

    Their job, as it seems, was to provide first aid - not go after the guy.

    Notice how the supervisor left a giant loophole in case someone dies... "That's a matter of judgment." If he had said, "No, they can only intervene in self defense," then that would prevent another metro incident...

    What he did was set the Old Port up to say, "They didn't follow orders, just like the metro agents, they are supposed to make the proper judgment to engage."

    I take it that the Old Port is city? The "Prevention/Protection" thing sounds like what the police wear.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andy Taylor
    replied
    First aid incident!

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Another one

    Here is a story from today's Montreal Gazette. Another trained security force becomes Observe and Report

    Guards abandon chase
    OLD PORT TAKES HANDS-OFF APPROACH
    Patrollers face sanctions – including dismissal – for intervening in disputes
    JAN RAVENSBERGEN
    THE GAZETTE
    Hands off the bad guys.


    That’s rule No. 1 for the 40 security patrollers on staff at the Old Port of Montreal – never mind their vests conspicuously emblazoned “Prévention/Protection.”


    A suspect in two knife slashings during a brawl at the Old Port Saturday night was on the verge of being caught by patrollers who chased him.


    But the slasher was deliberately allowed to make good his escape – in line with standing orders that this sort of task is strictly police work, Old Port official Lily Robert said yesterday. Those hands-off orders were formalized last November.


    The two slashings took place about 10:45 p.m., amid a fireworks-night crowd at the Old Port estimated at more than 30,000.


    Patrollers were closing in on the suspect and were about to wrestle him to the ground.


    But a supervisor then ordered them to let their quarry scamper away, Robert confirmed.


    The supervisor was just following orders, added Robert: Patrollers are prohibited from becoming physically involved in any dispute,“except in the case of legitimate defence.”


    Self-defence only? Or the defence of others?


    “That’s a question of judgment,” she responded.


    If one port visitor is beating up another, does that mean a patroller isn’t allowed to separate the two?


    “That’s a hypothetical example,” Robert responded.


    Police showed up “several minutes (after the chase), after the suspect disappeared,” said Michel Gendreau, president of the union that represents the patrollers.


    One man was slashed in the upper body, the other in the lower body. Both are in their 20s. Neither injury was life-threatening.


    The suspect dropped a knife at the scene “but that doesn’t mean he didn’t have another weapon,” Robert said: “The police told us we did the right thing.”


    A patroller who intervenes physically in an altercation becomes “subject to threats of disciplinary sanction that could include dismissal,” Gendreau said. Robert confirmed this, adding that no patroller has been fired for that reason.


    “In light of recent incidents, we fear for the security of the public, employees on the site and the security agents,” Gendreau said.


    Saturday night’s knife assaults were classified as a “first aid” incident, Robert claimed, “because first aid was involved.”


    It was one of 18 recorded by the Old Port since April 1. There were 58 such incidents in 2006.


    Another “about half a dozen” incidents involving “disturbing peace and order” have taken place since April 1 vs. 42 all of last year.


    Old Port patrollers must “remain at a secure distance at all times” from aggressive persons or suspects in criminal acts, Robert said.


    On June 18, four to eight métro security guards stood idly by in the Berri-UQÀM subway station as a man repeatedly kicked and hit a woman.


    Police arrived seven minutes later. Both the victim and her attacker had disappeared. That incident remains “under investigation” – with no target date for delivery of a report, said Isabelle Tremblay of the Montreal Transit Corp.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by craig333 View Post
    Have they received new post orders? Has this pretty much died down in the media?
    They have been told thast they are to act as first responders. Call the police & intervene if safe to do so until the police arrive. (They have vests & PR 24s).

    It has disappeared in the media. I guess it will come back when the investigation is made public.

    Leave a comment:

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