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  • #31
    I"m sure most if not all of the clients, when they first hire security, just send a memo around to the effect of "we now have security on the premises" with no more explanation of what functions that entails.

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    • #32
      I had never jeard of O&R only security until I started coming to this forum Now that I think about it my little blue book that Pinkerton made me carry did say something about not getting involved. Also I remember while working at a mental hospital that even if we saw a patient escaping we were not allowed to chase him, we had to go get a nurse. However in the hotel experience of now more than 30 years we are required to protect property AND people.
      I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
      Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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      • #33
        Lord how I hate the O & R type of security. But I also understand why the guards in the Metro did not want to intervene in the domestic. There is no more dangerous situation that police face than a domestic. While the woman is being beaten, she wants help to make it stop, but once it has stopped, she wants to protect her man from the police.

        It happens every day.

        Every security position has limits and rules that tie our hands at times. Like we carry nightsticks, but the only use for them is defensive, we cannot use them to hit somebody.

        There are also situations where multiple agencies work to different ends. I work at an account where I work for one agency, and three other officers work for another. They are responsible for security and safety within the courts, I am responsible for the safety and security of the building. They worry about a concept, I worry about the brick and mortar. WE are all armed.

        And woe to me if I think otherwise.

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        • #34
          Here's the press release issued by the STM. (Societé du Transport de Montréal-our city owned transit agency. Trudel is the Chairman as well as the Mayor of my borough).

          The STM is investigating an incident that occured
          June 18, 2007, at Berri-UQAM métro station

          Montreal, June 20, 2007 - The Chairman of the STM Board of Directors, Claude Trudel, met members of the press earlier today with an update about the incident that reportedly happened Monday, June 18, around 4 pm, at Berri-UQAM métro station.

          This is what he had to say:

          The incident reported in the media implicating our métro inspectors is currently under investigation. We have asked our people to produce a full report as quickly as possible.


          If the facts reported to us are true, in other words that our agents did not respond or intervene to break-up the altercation, then we regret their behaviour and consider it unacceptable.


          The STM never told its métro security staff to not respond under such circumstances.


          We expect them to carry out their duty as follows:

          They must report such incidents to the métro control centre according to the usual procedure;

          The control centre immediately relays the call to the SPVM; (Servicce de Police de la Ville de Montréal).

          If their safety is not threatened, métro inspectors must intervene to subdue the individuals involved until the arrival of the police;

          They must turn over the individuals to the police, who can then proceed with their investigation.

          Finally, Mr. Trudel reiterated that, despite the new sharing of responsibilities, métro inspectors are still bound by their civic duty.
          I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
          Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

          Comment


          • #35
            Yeah, those are their orders now. And what were they before the incident? I think we all know the answer.
            "Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists. " Author Unknown

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            • #36
              Originally posted by HotelSecurity View Post
              If their safety is not threatened, métro inspectors must intervene to subdue the individuals involved until the arrival of the police;
              There's your answer right there. I'm sure they didn't feel safe

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              • #37
                Originally posted by CorpSec View Post
                Do you think your job is to shoot to "kill"? No offense, but your post was a bit hard to follow for me.


                In the STATE buildings yes, Private sector no......

                "protecting the governor and his dignitaries" are more important then civilian lives....

                i do not like the post orders i have been given, which are SHOT TO KILL, ANY ARMED INDIVIDUAL WHOM IMPOSES A REAL THREAT WITH THE INTENT TO CAUSE LOSE OF LIFE.
                Its not how we die that counts.....
                Its not how we lived that counts....
                all that matters is how we saved that one life that one time by being in the right place at the right time....

                Comment


                • #38
                  Wow. Those sound like they were written in the 1970s. You shoot to stop, not to kill. That someone happens to die from the method you use to stop (removing the blood from their brain by shooting them in the center mass) is secondary to stopping their attack.
                  Some Kind of Commando Leader

                  "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                  • #39
                    call me what you want at the end of the day I have to go home to my family.
                    Todd

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                    • #40
                      Unoffical update

                      I was talking to an Officer from the "Inspecteurs" last night. He said that the investigation is not yet finished & nothing is offical but still no victim has come foreward & they have reviewed all the video from the station & there is no conflict between a man & a woman seen.

                      He also told me that they are up to 90 members now. (Down from 160 or so). They will be enforcing the ilegal use of fares strongly & expect to recover a lot of money for the corp.
                      I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                      Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Have they received new post orders? Has this pretty much died down in the media?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by craig333 View Post
                          Have they received new post orders? Has this pretty much died down in the media?
                          They have been told thast they are to act as first responders. Call the police & intervene if safe to do so until the police arrive. (They have vests & PR 24s).

                          It has disappeared in the media. I guess it will come back when the investigation is made public.
                          I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                          Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Another one

                            Here is a story from today's Montreal Gazette. Another trained security force becomes Observe and Report

                            Guards abandon chase
                            OLD PORT TAKES HANDS-OFF APPROACH
                            Patrollers face sanctions – including dismissal – for intervening in disputes
                            JAN RAVENSBERGEN
                            THE GAZETTE
                            Hands off the bad guys.


                            That’s rule No. 1 for the 40 security patrollers on staff at the Old Port of Montreal – never mind their vests conspicuously emblazoned “Prévention/Protection.”


                            A suspect in two knife slashings during a brawl at the Old Port Saturday night was on the verge of being caught by patrollers who chased him.


                            But the slasher was deliberately allowed to make good his escape – in line with standing orders that this sort of task is strictly police work, Old Port official Lily Robert said yesterday. Those hands-off orders were formalized last November.


                            The two slashings took place about 10:45 p.m., amid a fireworks-night crowd at the Old Port estimated at more than 30,000.


                            Patrollers were closing in on the suspect and were about to wrestle him to the ground.


                            But a supervisor then ordered them to let their quarry scamper away, Robert confirmed.


                            The supervisor was just following orders, added Robert: Patrollers are prohibited from becoming physically involved in any dispute,“except in the case of legitimate defence.”


                            Self-defence only? Or the defence of others?


                            “That’s a question of judgment,” she responded.


                            If one port visitor is beating up another, does that mean a patroller isn’t allowed to separate the two?


                            “That’s a hypothetical example,” Robert responded.


                            Police showed up “several minutes (after the chase), after the suspect disappeared,” said Michel Gendreau, president of the union that represents the patrollers.


                            One man was slashed in the upper body, the other in the lower body. Both are in their 20s. Neither injury was life-threatening.


                            The suspect dropped a knife at the scene “but that doesn’t mean he didn’t have another weapon,” Robert said: “The police told us we did the right thing.”


                            A patroller who intervenes physically in an altercation becomes “subject to threats of disciplinary sanction that could include dismissal,” Gendreau said. Robert confirmed this, adding that no patroller has been fired for that reason.


                            “In light of recent incidents, we fear for the security of the public, employees on the site and the security agents,” Gendreau said.


                            Saturday night’s knife assaults were classified as a “first aid” incident, Robert claimed, “because first aid was involved.”


                            It was one of 18 recorded by the Old Port since April 1. There were 58 such incidents in 2006.


                            Another “about half a dozen” incidents involving “disturbing peace and order” have taken place since April 1 vs. 42 all of last year.


                            Old Port patrollers must “remain at a secure distance at all times” from aggressive persons or suspects in criminal acts, Robert said.


                            On June 18, four to eight métro security guards stood idly by in the Berri-UQÀM subway station as a man repeatedly kicked and hit a woman.


                            Police arrived seven minutes later. Both the victim and her attacker had disappeared. That incident remains “under investigation” – with no target date for delivery of a report, said Isabelle Tremblay of the Montreal Transit Corp.
                            I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                            Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              First aid incident!
                              "Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists. " Author Unknown

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Sure.

                                Their job, as it seems, was to provide first aid - not go after the guy.

                                Notice how the supervisor left a giant loophole in case someone dies... "That's a matter of judgment." If he had said, "No, they can only intervene in self defense," then that would prevent another metro incident...

                                What he did was set the Old Port up to say, "They didn't follow orders, just like the metro agents, they are supposed to make the proper judgment to engage."

                                I take it that the Old Port is city? The "Prevention/Protection" thing sounds like what the police wear.
                                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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