Security in deep doggie doo!

[War113]

I won't stop whinning because the proble of the security here is that nobody gets up and say .OK THIS IS NOT RIGHT!

See who wants a carrer with no advantage at long term.I take my job way to much seriously that's my problem.I make reports for example..an emergency light and for **** sakes it never gets repaired or they dont give a sh*t.

I want for example to be able to react to all kind of situations.How can I physically react to anything with a pen and a notebook.I mean the other security guards at my old contracts were there to sleep or collect the paycheck.Not me.I learn to really get involved to provide a safe feeling sense of the propreties I am guarding.Even if it means taking risks.I am just asking for the correct tools to fullfil my security duties.

Anyways..

[HotelSecurity]

Thats great to have iron clad post orders. And even better if you have a company willing to go to bat for you in court and the media. But seriously, most of these security firms are pretty small, don't want to spend the money on lawyers to prove they're right and figure its also better for their reputation to just get rid of the guard once the media starts in. Guards are easy to replace. Besides, we don't make enough to sue for wrongful discharge.

These Transit Security Agents earn about $52,000.00 a year & have pensions!! They also have a strong union.

[EMTGuard]

I won't stop whinning because the proble of the security here is that nobody gets up and say .OK THIS IS NOT RIGHT!

See who wants a carrer with no advantage at long term.I take my job way to much seriously that's my problem.I make reports for example..an emergency light and for **** sakes it never gets repaired or they dont give a sh*t.

I want for example to be able to react to all kind of situations.How can I physically react to anything with a pen and a notebook.I mean the other security guards at my old contracts were there to sleep or collect the paycheck.Not me.I learn to really get involved to provide a safe feeling sense of the propreties I am guarding.Even if it means taking risks.I am just asking for the correct tools to fullfil my security duties.

Anyways..

I respect your view. I'm a Army vet, been a auxiliary with my Parish (county) Marshal service and worked over 6 years as a prison guard. I'm used to taking security patrols and rule enforcement seriously. But I've learned that unarmed private security work is a totally different animal.
Warning- Rant ahead...
The client just wants us there for show. After a while we learn just how much they care about our job. Over a year ago we had a security audit to check our needs. We learned that the client needed to replace/repair 12 cameras and swap our VHC recorders for DVRs. While our cameras and monitors are fading out due to constant use and old age and our old VHS tapes and recorder system are nearly unsuable we learn that the director of shipping had several new color cameras installed in our warehouses and the feeds run to his office to a bank of digital recorders and lcd monitors.
So, while I can't sit in my guard shack and see the gates I'm responsible for, there are department heads with brand new security systems in place. Heck, let's just deputize them as security guards and we can find somewhere that needs licensed SOs.
We have asked numerous times about issueing plant employees vehicle pass stickers or ID cards so we know who is supposed to go where. Something so we know when a vehicle enters the plant and the person claims that they are a supervisor or lead man in a particular department with permission to drive in that they are not BSing us. Something so that we find a car in a parking spot with headlights on we can look up the pass number on the windshield and findout who owns that vehicle notify him. Something we can give our regular contractors who don't have designated contractor parking lots (don't ask me why) but drive in.
We've asked for the client to replace/repair a gate arm with card reader at the entrance to an Employee Only parking lot. It's been broken for >2 years. Everyday we have multiple incidents of vehicles entering the lot which don't belong there. Vehicles have been vandalized and broken into. From our guard shack in the scale house building we don't have a clear view or access control of the lot and the camera over the lot is useless.
Even if we see someone in the lot the 2 officers on duty are busy doing jobs such as signing in semi trucks and deliveries and handing out scale tickets or answering phones. If you do get the chance to break away, drive in the unmarked minivan we are given as a patrol vehicle to confront the tresspasser, tell them to exit the facility and park in designated visitor parking areas in the future we get complaints from the employee who the tresspasser was there to see. We do an incident report and it gets tossed in the circular file by the client.
Obviously they don't care that unauthorized vehicles and people are driving into the plant, driving into restricted areas and wandering around. So if they don't care, why should we? for example-On the way into work I notice a couple of cars in the employee lot crammed with people who are obviously not employees there at the plant. I get to the guard shack, mention it to my supervisor and watch as he shruggs it off.
Nobody cares and if I get worked up about it I'm just gonna stress myself to death over nothing.
A coworker wants to grow out a beard he had before our company took this account and had to shave it off. He was told that beards were unprofessional and not allowed. Meanwhile, last week I was put on standby incase I had to cover a shift for a EMT/SO who had scheduled a appointment at a Tattoo parlor just before her night shift. She was getting a ring put in her lip. I had to have my phone ready on my day off in case the new hole in her face hurt or swelled up too much for her to make it to work.
I had already been called in to work a shift for her a few months back because she was at the tatto parlor getting inked and didn't want to interupt the artist to go work her 12 hours in the guard shack. So she can have a hoop of metal through her lip but my coworker can't have a goatee. What the Frack!?!
I've seen the same person show up out of uniform because she had a doctor's excuse the next morning and didn't want to be bothered with changing clothes in the restroom after her shift. Another officer worked a dayshift in civies because he had fallen asleep the night before while his laundry was washing and he didn't get it dry in time to leave for work.
Workers who unplug camera inputs from monitors and plug in their personal DVD palyers so they can watch Spiderman on something bigger than the 5 inch screen they have on the player.
I worked dayshift last weekend and my coworker and I spent most of the shifts repairing fans and computers or copying DVDs from Blockbuster. I didn't even bother wearing my uniform shirt but I wore a black SECURITY t shirt. Nobody gave a darn.
Most weekends are spent doing computer repairs and or other stuff. Here's a shot of a coworker who was working on a TiVo and installing software on a supervisors home computer on weekend.

That and the mandatory 3 patrols and the shift is over.
I've had to learn to lay back and just let crap happen. That's what the client and my supervisor want so that's what I'll do. I hope you are able to do the same in the future.
Rant off.

[EMTGuard]

WOW. That was sssoooo off topic. Sorry for the rant. I feel much better though.

[N. A. Corbier]

Not to mention if you stress out too much, they'll fire you for rocking the boat.

[War113]

that security desk is such a mess...LOLL

[craig333]

I guess I couldn't work only to observe and report. If I saw someone being assaulted, I would do something to stop the attack. I mean, how can you sit
and watch another human being getting killed?

Depends on the situation. If I hadn't been able to calm down to 60 year old ladies today, hurling racial insults at each, yeah, I'd have stood back while they went at it like I"m supposed to.
But, I'm sure most all of us, no matter the rules, orders low pay and lack of equipment, would jump in under certain situations. Would I intervene if I saw someone assaulting a child? Sure. And if I got fired I could live with that.

[hrdickinson]

What happened to common sense

Anyone in this forum knows I am very concerned about liability issues, but what ever hapened to common sense. First of all, let me say that LE and contract security are not the same, period. Anyone who thinks it is has made a very poor career choice.

Let me exaggerate. If your post orders are to O & R and you see someone stealing a parked 1972 Pacer armed with AK 47's, then you O & R. If you see a person being raped or beaten, then you follow your instincts. If my employer isn't going to pick up my legal expenses wouldn't be the first thing on my mind.

I'm not advocating reckless involvement or actions but if you could come to someone else's aide without making the situation worse, then I would like to think that I would do it.

In terms of the original post, I have no LE experience but I am old which qualifies me to respond. At age 50, I begain to realize that I couldn't do everything I could when I was 30. At age 60, I can still drop and do 20 honest pushups but I'm sure I dissappoint my 8 yr son when I can't do some of the things that his friends' dads can do. At my age, I rely on my brain and my experience to provide my clients with assistance. Anyone who thinks that people will rely on them for physical assistance when they get up in years is unrealistic. May be they hung in there too long for there own good. Whatever, they should now be trying to leverage their experience to their own benefit. In the current environment, who is guaranteed the same job for life? And if they were, how many would want it?

[craig333]

Ummm, stealing a 1972 pacer? I either help or contact the feds. Something is definitely wrong there.

Even in a situation that screams for action, you have to be realistic. Do I have a chance of succeeding or will there be two victims and no good description to give the cops.

[Christopherstjo]

Damed if you do and damned if you do not - that's security in a nut shell

[CorpSec]

may job is to protect state employees, shot to kill o.O wonder if the STATE would back me or not since im a contractor, and in doing my duties i am supposed to SHOT to KILL, an some walking in pumping or cocking a gun. but legally by state law....... thats another story. i am to protect life, proterty, life being human or animal.


58-63-102. Definitions.

In addition to the definitions in Section 58-1-102, as used in this chapter:

(2) "Armed private security officer" means an individual:
(a) employed by a contract security company;
(b) whose primary duty is that of guarding personal or real property, or providing protection or security to the life and well being of humans or animals; and
(c) who wears, carries, possesses, or has immediate access to a firearm at any time in the performance of the individual's duties.

(11) (a) "Security officer" means an individual who:
(i) is employed by a contract security company securing, guarding, or otherwise protecting tangible personal property, real property, or the life and well being of human or animal life against:
(A) trespass or other unlawful intrusion or entry;
(B) larceny;
(C) vandalism or other abuse;
(D) arson or any other criminal activity; or
(E) personal injury caused by another person or as a result of acts or omissions by another person;
(ii) is controlling, regulating, or directing the flow of movements of individuals or
vehicles; or
(iii) providing street patrol service.

Do you think your job is to shoot to "kill"? No offense, but your post was a bit hard to follow for me.

[HotelSecurity]

Here is the editorial in Montreal's English newspaper, The Gazette from yesterday june 22:

Security guards failed métro users
With each passing day, the circumstances around the beating of a woman by her husband or boyfriend in the Berri-UQÀM métro station seem more inexplicable from every point of view.


A witness to the Monday assault, Alain Delamirande, 44, told reporters there were nearly 300 people at the station along with several Montreal Transit Corp. security guards. Between four and eight security guards, Delamirande said, were standing a comfortable distance away, watching as the man hit and kicked the woman.


Delamirande said he called out to them, “What are waiting for? Why aren’t you doing something?” He said they replied, “It’s not our responsibility anymore.”


In what might prove not to be a coincidence, Monday was the first day the Montreal police department officially took over patrol duties in the 65-stop subway system.


Transit security guards have said they were told they were no longer to intervene in cases of violence, but to call police instead. This directive, the president of the guards’ union said, was why the guards did not intervene to protect the woman from assault.


If this is an accurate account of the guards’ thinking, one can only conclude they should not be doing any work that requires judgment. If they don’t think they’re supposed to protect people, that leaves property and they’re doing a very poor job of fending off vandals.


If the security guards were, in fact, told to call police in cases of violence and do nothing until they arrive, then transit bosses failed in an important duty to communicate clearly how guards are expected to work with police.


There seems to be good reason to believe the two services were unprepared to work together on Monday when police took over patrol duties – and possibly still are.


MTC head Claude Trudel denies transit security guards were told never to intervene. He said they have been instructed to call police and then “contain the incident,” unless doing that would put their lives in danger.


An unarmed man hitting a woman is not generally a life-threatening situation, not if there are at least two guards on hand to intervene. It is unreasonable to expect members of the public to try to calm the situation when there are paid and presumably trained security guards right there.


Another outrageous element to this sorry episode was the reported refusal of a ticket collector to call police when a bystander asked that she do that. For her to reply she was “too busy” shows a level of heartlessness Montrealers don’t deserve in public-sector employees.


Security guards might well feel marginalized by the presence of police, but they seem to have chosen exactly the right way to ensure they will continue to be marginalized. It is up to them at this point to prove their worth. They could start by apologizing. Both the police and the MTC are investigating: The results of both investigations must be made public, as must any sanctions imposed as a result. With two security forces in the métro, it’s not too much to ask that we feel safe.

[craig333]

You're screwed once the media gets involved.

[CorpSec]

Thanks for the updates on this Hotel Security. As someone who has worked a lot of O and R security, the people that make decisions need to realize that in the O and R security model, security staff stands back and watches people get assaulted or they risk their jobs.

It seems like the politicians are getting heat and now they are backpedaling trying to save their hides.

I have often wondered when working an O and R site how many people in the various buildings actually knew our rules of engagement. I wonder if they knew that if a guy was assaulting them, we would do nothing more than notify the cops and be a good witness.

I do not have any issues with O and R security as long as the people at the facility understand what the role of security is. I always wondered what would have been the outcome if an executive's wife came to meet him at work and was accosted as the guards went to the nearest phone and called local law enforcement.

Granted, providing a visual presence and enforcing access control procedures will make a site safer for the people that work there.

[N. A. Corbier]

They don't. I've watched people display shock, amazement, and even resentment at the guard and the client once they find out that the security guard is there for a visible deterrence only, and if they are the victim of a crime on the guard's property... They had best protect themselves, because the guard's sole mission is to report it to someone else. Be it the supervisor, the police, or the client, they're not there do save anyone.

When I was posted at a hotel once, and the general manager went off because I dared take a man into custody for attacking two employees (himself included)... Our company representative put me on fire watch duties and turned the post into O&R.

The front desk staff asked him "what does that mean," and the general manager said, "POLICE ARREST, GUARD TAKES TOWELS." The supervisor said, "No, it means that if something happens to any of you, like tonight, he is not to become involved other than to call me and report it. Not the police, me."

They threatened to quit right there, since it was Guavaween and I (uniformed presence for the win) was the only thing keeping 500 angry drunks in line who kept trying to get into the hotel.

My last six hours of that night consisted of sitting in my car, at the front doors, with the radio off. I wasn't even allowed to answer their calls, because my sole purpose was to watch for fires.