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  • #31
    you mean babysitting kids making sure they are not running around the building, is not more job :P he he so much fun doing that added extra :P
    Its not how we die that counts.....
    Its not how we lived that counts....
    all that matters is how we saved that one life that one time by being in the right place at the right time....

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Andy Taylor View Post
      Under the previous chief, one officer was actually given a write up for assisting the janitor with taking out the trash. His job was to escort her to the dumpster ( in dark alley) He carried a couple of bags with him and helped her lift the cans. the chief said, "he would not be able to respond to a threat with his hands full of trash if there had been one. Now that I am chief, the officers are allowed to help with the trash, if they so choose and it does not interfere with their duties.

      Most of my officers are team players and will help with various non-security tasks when approriate, but security is first and formost. Management has a good understanding of this.
      If the guard's purpose is to protect the person he's escorting, then his hands should not be encumbered by trash. If their purposes is to observe the attack and report it to someone, then I see no reason why they can't help with the trash.

      All in all, it depends on what they're doing out there. To protect someone, to physically intervene, you need your hands free. To simply observe, flee the scene, and report it to a supervisor (or the police if your state law requires it), you do not need your hands, only your feet.
      Some Kind of Commando Leader

      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Bill Warnock View Post
        Chimpie: Just to touch on one aspect of your response. When you feel vibrations from a switch cover or other metallic object that is known as AC ripple and if properly grounded to something can be fatal to the person touching it. We must bear in mind it takes 17 mA to stop your heart and it takes 50 mA to trip a 20 Amp circuit breaker that is perfect working order.
        Enjoy the day,
        Bill
        And didn't I say that if something is wrong, maintenance should fix it?

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        • #34
          Originally posted by HCSecurity View Post
          This issue just came up; the head of engineering is getting calls from the weekend/evening security officers about burnt out light bulbs and other minor issues. I am going to work with engineering to get a emergency/non-emergency list... do any of you have any solutions or a list at your site?
          I may have them start calling me to pre-screen calls...
          Are your officers/guards not competent enough to make these decisions on their own? If it is a minor issue, why aren't they creating a maintenance log of stuff they find on their shift?

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          • #35
            Is it minor? A light out can be a major issue if its in a stairwell or as in my case, an elevator. The wheelchair patient who found himself in a pitch black elevator wouldn't have thought a burnt out light was minor.

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            • #36
              best part about lights out are when you make the reports to maintenance and they never repair them and a year later they are still burnt out... :P
              Its not how we die that counts.....
              Its not how we lived that counts....
              all that matters is how we saved that one life that one time by being in the right place at the right time....

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Bill Warnock View Post
                Chimpie: Just to touch on one aspect of your response. When you feel vibrations from a switch cover or other metallic object that is known as AC ripple and if properly grounded to something can be fatal to the person touching it. We must bear in mind it takes 17 mA to stop your heart and it takes 50 mA to trip a 20 Amp circuit breaker that is perfect working order.
                Enjoy the day,
                Bill
                Bill,
                By chance, are you a Ham radio operator? That sounds like something I'd hear over the local repeater on my drive to work.
                Steve,
                KC5SAS
                Hospital Security Officer

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by EMTGuard View Post
                  Bill,
                  By chance, are you a Ham radio operator? That sounds like something I'd hear over the local repeater on my drive to work.
                  Steve,
                  KC5SAS
                  No Steve I'm not a HAM radio operator. I learned that when attending a Navy electronics course at Norfolk Naval Shipyard in 1982. Used that on surveys for both Army and US Marshals Service. Had a Marshal's secretary touch a heating radiator while moving the metal chasis of her computer's CPU. She was knocked unconscious. There was AC ripple on the chasis. The circuit breaker did not trip. She was shaken and an OSHA report was filed. She was lucky, it could have been fatal. I had fun with that one.
                  Enjoy the day,
                  Bill

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                  • #39
                    I do not touch powered PCs with metal chassis unless I've built the thing myself. The chassis is the grounding plane for multiple 12 volt rails with several amps a piece in them! If there's an improper ground, or the 12 volt rails are somehow shorted to ground... zap.
                    Some Kind of Commando Leader

                    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
                      I do not touch powered PCs with metal chassis unless I've built the thing myself. The chassis is the grounding plane for multiple 12 volt rails with several amps a piece in them! If there's an improper ground, or the 12 volt rails are somehow shorted to ground... zap.
                      Nathan, in my security guide, lectures and in person demonstrations I've tried to place emphasis on this subject; but people just don't seem to grasp the seriousness of the situation.
                      Nathan, Security Consultant, SecTrainer, Davis002, what have been your experiences in this arena? I hope the readership doesn't get the impression this is a non security related issue, it is critical in our profession. It is a long journey back from dead.
                      Enjoy the day,
                      Bill

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                      • #41
                        In my security days at NASA the dangers presented by electricity were not lost on me. Much of our training centered around safely using equiment either connected to or next power sources. Static electricty was ALWAYS a major concern.

                        When I was with a major paint manufacturer/retailer static was a ever present concern. If I walked into a facility and found unsafe or non-existant grounding methods - whoever was responsible paid a heavy price. Have you ever seen a paint store go up in flames?
                        Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                        Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                        Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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                        • #42
                          [QUOTE=I always thought Security was supposed to observe, identify, protect, and report. Seems as though my work (in-house mall security) has us doing part maintenance, part housekeeping. Its reached a surreal level that my Security Manager is resigning for this among other reasons.[/QUOTE]

                          It seems that this is simply a tip of a larger iceberg problem. The problem of 'other duties as assigned' is not really that of the individual officer. It reflects more on poor upper management, both on the Security Manager for letting it get out of hand (uncontrollable) and the Maintenance Supervisor for taking advantage of a helping hand. Once an extra non-security related duty is accepted, it is nearly impossible to give it back.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by AKpiggy View Post
                            It seems that this is simply a tip of a larger iceberg problem. The problem of 'other duties as assigned' is not really that of the individual officer. It reflects more on poor upper management, both on the Security Manager for letting it get out of hand (uncontrollable) and the Maintenance Supervisor for taking advantage of a helping hand. Once an extra non-security related duty is accepted, it is nearly impossible to give it back.
                            AKpiggy, how can you identify a hazard if you have not had the training to identify one or more of these hazards. Perhaps I know your position, how much is too much.
                            Curtis asked if anyone has seen a paint manufacturer or retail outlet on fire. A static discharge caused a major fire in Ivorydale - Cincinnati in 1966. The source was identified as a contract security worker who did not change his shoes when he came on duty to the static free shoes provided by the company. He was blown free but others were burned in place to include two members of the security team. I know there were storage drums of MEK that went up in a rapid order detonation.
                            To a well trained security officer, safety hazards are just part of the game, potentially as dangerous as an armed intruder.
                            Enjoy the day,
                            Bill

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                            • #44
                              In 2 of my hotels there is the opposite problem. For 15 hours a day at these 2 hotels there are non-security people doing security jobs. Front Desk Managers & Maintenance people. Lots of hotels, even large downtown ones, have cut their security departments, having them just owernight.

                              In my downtown hotel the extra duties have saved the day shift. Years ago we took over lost & found from Housekeeping & we program & repair the electronic locks.
                              I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                              Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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                              • #45
                                Value-Added Services

                                Most O&R security is asked to care for some non-security tasks. As long as security service isn't compromised and it's within reason, then you may want to go with the flow. Lately, I've been on the other side, so to speak, with my own security business. When a client requests a non-security function, I normally do it because it's good for business. Now I understand why I'm asked to do other value-added services when I work for a contract security company. Welcome to the club.
                                Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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