Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Cops think that we all wannabe cops.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • james2go30
    replied
    actually yes

    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    Ok, you have the 40 hour D course. You were taught just enough to be dangerous, quite frankly. Since all the state gives the trainer is a billet pointed list of "stuff to cover at a minimum," your training really varies from provider to provider.

    Were you taught Adult First Aid? or were you simply told "you may perform first aid as a good samaritian, but if you do so, you will be fired by your employer?"

    Was defensive tactics covered including how to defend yourself, or simply that you may be attacked by the public and the types of weapons you may encounter on the job?

    Was citizen's arrest covered, including elements of crimes discussed in the D course, or was it simply, "You may arrest, but most companies discourage this."

    Were you taught how to direct traffic, or were you taught that you may direct traffic on private property, and given a list of hand signals without demonstration or practice?

    Was liablity in Florida Law and Section 1983 of USC explained to you, including how failure to perform duties creates liability, or was the "liability" section a brief discussion of how if you touch someone, they can sue you for false arrest, and the usual "If you abandon your post, you're responsible for anything that happens, subject to fine or arrest, etc."

    The Florida course brushes over aspects of things, but does not go very indepth at all. Course providers may choose to make it more indepth, indeed, the "40 hours" is at a minimum. But, most do not, and decide only to provide the minimum 24 hour and 16 hour refresher course. Anything else will be handled in a seperate course by that provider that your company may have kittens if you take, such as First Aid, Handcuffing, Defensive Tactics, Baton, etc.

    The course that Florida training schools put together works for the lowest denominator, the observe and report guard, because if you start throwing a bunch of "cool stuff" into it, the security companies will simply send their people to a course that isn't so "proactive" or "wannabe."

    Some compaines use an expanded training course at their own DS school, where they get you a D, G, state cert for shotgun or 9mm, baton, OC, defensive tactics, handcuffing, conflict resolution, verbal judo, and who knows what else.

    Others pick the cheapest school they can find, and the one that teaches the most inoffensive material. They send their guards there, and ensure that topics that they don't want covered (like arrest for breaches of peace, or anything but "run away") aren't.
    I am cpr and first aid certified, all the officers in our company are trained in these procedures, also the majority of our officers are trained in self defense. Our trainer was a police officer, and most of the company consists of ex-police or military. I personally learned from my father, ex military and my uncle and cousins, police officers. I would like, however for our company to broaden its scope on certain things. I have handled several incidents without recoil on my end and the police officers responding have complimented me on how the situations were handled...most of my knowledge comes from just reading up on laws and security in my spare time....but I also think no matter how skilled you or how trained you are...it will always come down to the individual and their personality...highly trained with a bad personality and work ethics is just as as undertrained in my opinion...but I see your point I am on this forum to learn.
    Last edited by james2go30; 01-11-2007, 07:30 AM. Reason: to amend

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by james2go30
    I had the 40 hour course which I have passed and been licensed. I have had no problems with local Law Enforcement. I do my job on a professional level and a large percentage of the police officers respect me for running my shifts on my site so well. I don't go stepping on their toes. Don't know if it is because I grew up in a military home or what and don't care. I am there to do Job and I do it. I respect my uniform and I respect the uniform of the police. They have no problems with the officers on my site and compliment us on our work. so not people with the 16-40 hour class are idiots. We deal with our share problems...and since it is a large condo site I work you can imagine the types of drunken crazies we get.
    Ok, you have the 40 hour D course. You were taught just enough to be dangerous, quite frankly. Since all the state gives the trainer is a billet pointed list of "stuff to cover at a minimum," your training really varies from provider to provider.

    Were you taught Adult First Aid? or were you simply told "you may perform first aid as a good samaritian, but if you do so, you will be fired by your employer?"

    Was defensive tactics covered including how to defend yourself, or simply that you may be attacked by the public and the types of weapons you may encounter on the job?

    Was citizen's arrest covered, including elements of crimes discussed in the D course, or was it simply, "You may arrest, but most companies discourage this."

    Were you taught how to direct traffic, or were you taught that you may direct traffic on private property, and given a list of hand signals without demonstration or practice?

    Was liablity in Florida Law and Section 1983 of USC explained to you, including how failure to perform duties creates liability, or was the "liability" section a brief discussion of how if you touch someone, they can sue you for false arrest, and the usual "If you abandon your post, you're responsible for anything that happens, subject to fine or arrest, etc."

    The Florida course brushes over aspects of things, but does not go very indepth at all. Course providers may choose to make it more indepth, indeed, the "40 hours" is at a minimum. But, most do not, and decide only to provide the minimum 24 hour and 16 hour refresher course. Anything else will be handled in a seperate course by that provider that your company may have kittens if you take, such as First Aid, Handcuffing, Defensive Tactics, Baton, etc.

    The course that Florida training schools put together works for the lowest denominator, the observe and report guard, because if you start throwing a bunch of "cool stuff" into it, the security companies will simply send their people to a course that isn't so "proactive" or "wannabe."

    Some compaines use an expanded training course at their own DS school, where they get you a D, G, state cert for shotgun or 9mm, baton, OC, defensive tactics, handcuffing, conflict resolution, verbal judo, and who knows what else.

    Others pick the cheapest school they can find, and the one that teaches the most inoffensive material. They send their guards there, and ensure that topics that they don't want covered (like arrest for breaches of peace, or anything but "run away") aren't.

    Leave a comment:


  • james2go30
    replied
    16-40 hours training

    Originally posted by Sampson
    I have worked in LE as well as a P.I. and also in proprietary security. Frankly, I?ve worked with some very professional people in private security and I?ve seen some real morons as well. What seems to differentiate the morons from the pros is the level of training and hiring processes. Many contract companies will just run the newly hired officer through 16 to 40 hours of basic training and send them out in the field. These are the folks that LE is complaining about.

    The professionals that I?ve worked with have at least some college as well as certified law enforcement training. This comes in handy when the security officer is faced with criminal activity and is placed in a position where knowing the elements of a crime and defensive tactics can come in handy vs. urinating oneself.

    So, I guess the answer to the problem would be to have the various regulatory agencies increase the amount of training that security officers receive and extensive background checks, but considering that many security firms are out to make a buck off of anyone with a pulse, this will probably never happen.
    I had the 40 hour course which I have passed and been licensed. I have had no problems with local Law Enforcement. I do my job on a professional level and a large percentage of the police officers respect me for running my shifts on my site so well. I don't go stepping on their toes. Don't know if it is because I grew up in a military home or what and don't care. I am there to do Job and I do it. I respect my uniform and I respect the uniform of the police. They have no problems with the officers on my site and compliment us on our work. so not people with the 16-40 hour class are idiots. We deal with our share problems...and since it is a large condo site I work you can imagine the types of drunken crazies we get.

    Leave a comment:


  • Security Vet
    replied
    Originally posted by HotelSecurity
    AH someone who thinks like I do! If you check some of my posts you will see that I am a big believer in security being "first responders for all emergencies". Also see that you've dobe hotel security, How long? I'm coming up on 30 years doing it, 25 with the same hotel!
    I worked for the Starwood sheraton part time for 5 years... It was a great part time gig. they went contract so we were all let go...

    Leave a comment:


  • exguard
    replied
    I too have no desire to be a police officer and I do not act as one either. Plus I make a hell of alot more $$$ than most standard police patrol officers.

    I work inside a major northeastern refinery complex in the facility protection department which includes security, fire, emergency response, communications division, K-9 Division, and a hazzardous materials response team

    we answer on average 100-250 emergencies a year {mostly medical, some fire and a small amount of chemical and fuel releases} every once in awhile we'll see a high angle rescue.

    Sure we're diffrent than most standard security operations but my main job in the facility is public safety {which is traffic enforcement, safety, dealing with irate employees, solving everyday security issues, patrols, fixed posts, dock security, transports, CCTV and alarm monitoring, paperwork, paperwork, more paperwork and yes...theft investigations....We do get 'em }- Essentially we're a city with in a city with thousands of residents. It's my job to enforce the company policies. We're well respected by our police department. We work hand in hand {example: if the city has a vehicle accident anywhere on the outside perimeter of the facility.....we respond, provide medical assistiance if nesessary, extrication if nesesssary, block intersections, and control traffic. They apprecieate our assistiance. We know our limitations, enforce those limitations especially with new hires, and attend police training related to our facility.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by Security Vet
    Oh, i love this topic.. Where do i start? I went to school for Criminal justice. Got my associates... Tried like hell to become a cop... In my neck of the woods it was not what you know it was who you know in order to become a LEO. I decided to get a job as a security Guard... it's what we were called back in the early 80's. I found the work to be exactly what i was looking for. i worked my way up through the ranks with different Security Companies... I worked for Disney, a major Hotel chain... and now i am The security operations manager at a fortune 500 company in the NYC metro area. i have a staff of over 100 Security Officers. We are responsible for Access control in the entire campus which consists of 12 buildings. We Patrol the campus on foot and vehicles. we are CPR First Aid, AED certified. We are the first responders for all emergencies. we are a contract security force doing the security function of this major corporation. Yet there are still not all... but still LEO that we interact with that see us a rent a cops. Let them remember something. These will be the same LEO after they retire who will be asking this rent a cop for a job. Interesting?
    AH someone who thinks like I do! If you check some of my posts you will see that I am a big believer in security being "first responders for all emergencies". Also see that you've dobe hotel security, How long? I'm coming up on 30 years doing it, 25 with the same hotel!

    Leave a comment:


  • talon
    replied
    Originally posted by Security Vet
    Oh, i love this topic.. Where do i start? I went to school for Criminal justice. Got my associates... Tried like hell to become a cop... In my neck of the woods it was not what you know it was who you know in order to become a LEO. I decided to get a job as a security Guard... it's what we were called back in the early 80's. I found the work to be exactly what i was looking for. i worked my way up through the ranks with different Security Companies... I worked for Disney, a major Hotel chain... and now i am The security operations manager at a fortune 500 company in the NYC metro area. i have a staff of over 100 Security Officers. We are responsible for Access control in the entire campus which consists of 12 buildings. We Patrol the campus on foot and vehicles. we are CPR First Aid, AED certified. We are the first responders for all emergencies. we are a contract security force doing the security function of this major corporation. Yet there are still not all... but still LEO that we interact with that see us a rent a cops. Let them remember something. These will be the same LEO after they retire who will be asking this rent a cop for a job. Interesting?
    We have all been there unfortunately. If you are not active LEO "you don't know jack". I have worked all over the United States and that attitude is everywhere.

    Leave a comment:


  • Security Vet
    replied
    Oh, i love this topic.. Where do i start? I went to school for Criminal justice. Got my associates... Tried like hell to become a cop... In my neck of the woods it was not what you know it was who you know in order to become a LEO. I decided to get a job as a security Guard... it's what we were called back in the early 80's. I found the work to be exactly what i was looking for. i worked my way up through the ranks with different Security Companies... I worked for Disney, a major Hotel chain... and now i am The security operations manager at a fortune 500 company in the NYC metro area. i have a staff of over 100 Security Officers. We are responsible for Access control in the entire campus which consists of 12 buildings. We Patrol the campus on foot and vehicles. we are CPR First Aid, AED certified. We are the first responders for all emergencies. we are a contract security force doing the security function of this major corporation. Yet there are still not all... but still LEO that we interact with that see us a rent a cops. Let them remember something. These will be the same LEO after they retire who will be asking this rent a cop for a job. Interesting?

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by Rick51a
    I think I've changed the thinking of at least one so far. A young cop that made light of a complaint I filed while on duty. When I got through writing to his supervisor, in a very professional manner, he has since been a lot more cooperative and friendly toward me. A few of the others in my area have read my book, Dreams In Blue: The Real Police and come away with a lot more respect for where I've been: which makes them realize that just because a person works as a guard doesn't mean that person is a dummy. Of course there are some people you will never change.

    Rick
    Excellent. Exactly what needed to be done.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rick51a
    replied
    I think I've changed the thinking of at least one so far. A young cop that made light of a complaint I filed while on duty. When I got through writing to his supervisor, in a very professional manner, he has since been a lot more cooperative and friendly toward me. A few of the others in my area have read my book, Dreams In Blue: The Real Police and come away with a lot more respect for where I've been: which makes them realize that just because a person works as a guard doesn't mean that person is a dummy. Of course there are some people you will never change.

    Rick

    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    It would take a pretty cold-hearted individual NOT to help. It's the right thing to do. With your LEO background, you are in a better position than most of us to readjust the thinking of officers who intimidate just for the sake of it. Instead of shrugging it off, why not respectfully call them on it? You'll be doing the next security guard who interacts with them a favor and it will keep that mindset from infecting rookie police officers in your area.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by Rick51a
    I'm a retired LEO now doing security. I've had local PD try to intimidate me. I am satisfied with what I do and who I am so I could care less what they think. That said, if I ever am doing a patrol and see one of them getting their butt beat I won't hesitate in pounding the crap out of the bad guy. We all have to live in this violent world and do the best we can so I'll just take it day by day.

    Rick
    It would take a pretty cold-hearted individual NOT to help. It's the right thing to do. With your LEO background, you are in a better position than most of us to readjust the thinking of officers who intimidate just for the sake of it. Instead of shrugging it off, why not respectfully call them on it? You'll be doing the next security guard who interacts with them a favor and it will keep that mindset from infecting rookie police officers in your area.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rick51a
    replied
    I'm a retired LEO now doing security. I've had local PD try to intimidate me. I am satisfied with what I do and who I am so I could care less what they think. That said, if I ever am doing a patrol and see one of them getting their butt beat I won't hesitate in pounding the crap out of the bad guy. We all have to live in this violent world and do the best we can so I'll just take it day by day.

    Rick

    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    I need to blow off some steam. I'm tired of reading about cops who think that all s/o's want to be like them. First of all there are PLENTY of s/o's who have -0- desire to be a cop, including myself. Just because a few misguided souls in security play wannabes doesn't give LE the right to bash the rest of us in security. Plenty of s/o's AND cops have been arrested. If you are a LEO on this forum who respects security, do us a favor and tell your comrades to stop lumping us all together with the problem s/o's. Thanks. I feel better now.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    BigNastyOne

    Read on.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    This is a standard codification of citizen's arrest. We can give chase, as well, in Wisconsin - as you may use reasonable force to effect the physical arrest. We don't have a codified law, its based on case law that everyone else loves to cite.

    The rest of it sounds like normal guard licensing statutes.

    Leave a comment:


  • IB107
    replied
    Utah Laws

    so here are some snippits of utah law which allow us some unique things

    In addition to the definitions in Section 58-1-102, as used in this chapter:
    (1) "Armed courier service" means a person engaged in business as a contract security company who transports or offers to transport tangible personal property from one place or point to another under the control of an armed security officer employed by that service.
    (2) "Armed private security officer" means an individual:
    (a) employed by a contract security company;
    (b) whose primary duty is that of guarding personal or real property, or providing protection or security to the life and well being of humans or animals; and
    (c) who wears, carries, possesses, or has immediate access to a firearm at any time in the performance of the individual's duties.
    (3) "Armored car service" means a person engaged in business as a contract security company who transports or offers to transport tangible personal property from one place or point to another under the control of an armed or unarmed private security officer employed by the company using a specially equipped motor vehicle offering a high degree of security.
    (4) "Board" means the Security Services Licensing Board created in Section 58-63-201.
    (5) "Contract security company" means a person engaged in business to provide security or guard services to another person for the purpose of protecting tangible personal property, real property, or the life and well being of human or animal life by assignment of security officers employed by the company and the use of specialized resources, motor vehicles, or equipment.
    (6) "Identification card" means a personal pocket or wallet size card issued by the division to each security officer licensed under this chapter.
    (7) "Officer" means a president, vice president, secretary, treasurer, or other officer of a corporation or limited liability company listed as an officer in the files with the Division of Corporations and Commercial Code.
    (8) "Owner" means a proprietor or general partner of a proprietorship or partnership, a lessee or assignee of the owner, the manager of the facility, or the event operator.
    (9) "Peace officer" means a person who:
    (a) is a certified peace officer as defined in Title 53, Chapter 13, Peace Officer Classifications; and
    (b) derives total or special law enforcement powers from, and is an employee of the federal government, the state, or any political subdivision, agency, department, branch, or service of either, of any municipality, or of any other unit of local government.
    (10) "Regular basis" means 20 or more hours per month

    (11) (a) "Security officer" means an individual who:
    (i) is employed by a contract security company securing, guarding, or otherwise protecting tangible personal property, real property, or the life and well being of human or animal life against:
    (A) trespass or other unlawful intrusion or entry;
    (B) larceny;
    (C) vandalism or other abuse;
    (D) arson or any other criminal activity; or
    (E) personal injury caused by another person or as a result of acts or omissions by another person;
    (ii) is controlling, regulating, or directing the flow of movements of individuals or
    vehicles; or
    (iii) providing street patrol service.
    b) "Security officer" does not include an individual whose duties are limited to custodial or other services even though the presence of that individual may act to provide some of the services set forth under Subsection (11)(a).
    (c) (i) "Security officer" does not include an individual whose duties include taking admission tickets, checking credentials, ushering, or checking bags, purses, backpacks, or other materials to be carried into a facility as described in Subsection (11)(c)(ii) if:
    (A) the individual carries out these duties without the use or aid of any specialized equipment;
    (B) the authority of the individual is limited to denying entry or passage of a person into or within the facility; and
    (C) the individual is not authorized to use physical force in the performance of the duties under this Subsection (11)(c).
    (ii) As used in this Subsection (11)(c), "facility" means a sports, concert, or theatrical venue or any convention center, fairgrounds, public assembly facility, or mass gathering location.
    (12) "Security system" means equipment, devices, or instruments installed for the purpose of:
    (a) detecting and signaling entry or intrusion by some individual into or onto, or exit from the premises protected by the system; or
    (b) signaling the commission of a robbery or other criminal activity at the election of an individual having control of the features of the security system.
    (13) "Specialized resources, motor vehicles, or equipment" means items of tangible personal property specifically designed for use in law enforcement or in providing security or guard services, or that have been specially equipped with devices or features specifically designed for use in providing law enforcement, security, or guard services, but do not include:
    (a) standardized clothing, whether or not bearing a company name or logo, if the clothing does not bear the words "security" or "guard"; or
    (b) items of tangible personal property, other than firearms or nonlethal weapons, that may be used without modification in providing security or guard services.
    (14) "Street patrol service" means a person engaged in business as a contract security company who provides patrols by means of foot, vehicle, or other method of transportation using public streets, thoroughfares, or property in the performance of their duties and responsibilities.
    (15) "Unarmed private security officer" means an individual:
    (a) employed by a contract security company;
    (b) whose primary duty is that of guarding personal or real property, or providing protection or security to the life and well being of humans or animals;
    (c) who never wears, carries, possesses, or has immediate access to a firearm at any time in the performance of his duties; and
    (d) who wears clothing of distinctive design or fashion bearing any symbol, badge, emblem, insignia, or other device that identifies or tends to identify the wearer as a security officer.
    (16) "Unlawful conduct" is as defined in Sections 58-1-501 and 58-63-501.
    (17) "Unprofessional conduct" is as defined in Sections 58-1-501 and 58-63-502 and as may be further defined by

    interesting is section 11 and 14 as it allows us to CONTROL,REGULATE,DIRECT VEHICLES and or PROVIDE STREET PATROL SERVICE


    okay Utah "citizen" arrest :P

    By private persons.

    A private person may arrest another:
    (1) For a public offense committed or attempted in his presence; or
    (2) When a felony has been committed and he has reasonable cause to believe the person arrested has committed

    Manner of making arrest.

    (1) The person making the arrest shall inform the person being arrested of his intention, cause, and authority to arrest him. Such notice shall not be required when:
    (a) there is reason to believe the notice will endanger the life or safety of the officer or another person or will likely enable the party being arrested to escape;
    (b) the person being arrested is actually engaged in the commission of, or an attempt to commit, an offense; or
    (c) the person being arrested is pursued immediately after the commission of an offense or an escape.
    (2) (a) If a hearing-impaired person, as defined in Subsection 78-24a-1(2), is arrested for an alleged violation of a criminal law, including a local ordinance, the arresting officer shall assess the communicative abilities of the hearing-impaired person and conduct this notification, and any further notifications of rights, warnings, interrogations, or taking of statements, in a manner that accurately and effectively communicates with the hearing-impaired person including qualified interpreters, lip reading, pen and paper, typewriters, computers with print-out capability, and telecommunications devices for the deaf.
    (b) Compliance with this subsection is a factor to be considered by any court when evaluating whether statements of a hearing-impaired person were made knowingly, voluntarily, and intelligently.


    So all in all in UTAH a SEO can "give chase with reasonable cause, as pursuitant to law... but only holds the position of civilian as for arrest powers"

    so ya have fun with that one :P but hey i like my state he he

    Leave a comment:

Leaderboard

Collapse
Working...
X