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  • Cops think that we all wannabe cops.

    I need to blow off some steam. I'm tired of reading about cops who think that all s/o's want to be like them. First of all there are PLENTY of s/o's who have -0- desire to be a cop, including myself. Just because a few misguided souls in security play wannabes doesn't give LE the right to bash the rest of us in security. Plenty of s/o's AND cops have been arrested. If you are a LEO on this forum who respects security, do us a favor and tell your comrades to stop lumping us all together with the problem s/o's. Thanks. I feel better now.
    Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

  • #2
    Mr. Security,

    I am an LEO and no I don't go around saying that every S/O wants to be a cop. I see where you are coming from, but you have to think where we are coming from. The ones that I have came across personally were Mall Security Guards. I have seen them try to make stops on vehicles with there amber lights, I have seen them tell us how to do our job, and seen them on the other side of our cells.

    I work in a small Village and we don't have any corporate S/O here, so hopefully these corporations are spending money that they have doing the proper background checks and training for you guys. Since I have only dealt with Mall Security Guards, that is my general picture of all S/O.

    If you only go to the Burger King in your town and they always mess up your order, doesn't that give you a picture about Burger King's service everywhere? I try to look at the BIG picture, but you always have that image burned in the back of your mind.

    You say that you don't ever want to be a LEO and don't pretend to be, but yet I have just read a post of yours that said something about the badge you wear. It's not security looking, you always have it showing, and that that is why people act better when they are around you. True or no? If you don't pretend that what are you trying to get people to think?

    I don't want to get in a pissing match with you, I'm just giving my two cents.

    Stay Safe,
    "Huey"

    Comment


    • #3
      There is a place for both disciplines. Yes, there are security officers who want to play LEO. And we have police recruiters who canvas many malls or other places looking at security officers and trying to lure the good ones away.
      We must all remember the face of law enforcement is changing and becoming more like security every day. The military was the first to institute crime prevention, the first to institute military police security companies or in the case of the Air Force, Security Forces.
      Crime prevention, business and residential security surveys are not within the province of local LEO, if they have the resources.
      We should all know it is much easier to prevent crime than to react and catch the criminal after the fact.
      As I was taught, Security and Law Enforcement are shared crafts, shared with the communities they serve. The public needs and wants law enforcement and public enforcement wants the public to be its extra eyes and ears.
      Today, it should not longer be "us versus them;" it should be "we, all of us, versus the miscreant."
      And for both public and private practitioners, "Remember the 21-foot rule."
      Enjoy the day,
      Bill

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Huey County
        Mr. Security,

        I am an LEO and no I don't go around saying that every S/O wants to be a cop. I see where you are coming from, but you have to think where we are coming from. The ones that I have came across personally were Mall Security Guards. I have seen them try to make stops on vehicles with there amber lights, I have seen them tell us how to do our job, and seen them on the other side of our cells.

        I work in a small Village and we don't have any corporate S/O here, so hopefully these corporations are spending money that they have doing the proper background checks and training for you guys. Since I have only dealt with Mall Security Guards, that is my general picture of all S/O.

        If you only go to the Burger King in your town and they always mess up your order, doesn't that give you a picture about Burger King's service everywhere? I try to look at the BIG picture, but you always have that image burned in the back of your mind.

        You say that you don't ever want to be a LEO and don't pretend to be, but yet I have just read a post of yours that said something about the badge you wear. It's not security looking, you always have it showing, and that that is why people act better when they are around you. True or no? If you don't pretend that what are you trying to get people to think?

        I don't want to get in a pissing match with you, I'm just giving my two cents.

        Stay Safe,
        "Huey"
        Keep a few things in mind, here. The employer Mr. Security works for does not provide "uniforms," as most LEOs think of them. Even "Security Guard" uniforms. He wears, basically, a two piece business suit of a perticular color with a patch on the front of the blazer coat.

        As to "Security looking badges," I have never really seen a difference in badge types between LE and Security. Except for center seal / star restrictions in Florida, most states allow a private citizen to display a badge, star, or shield on their clothing to signify a position of office. This could be a security officer, or a mayor, or Marshal of the Parade. Some of these badges look alot like "police badges," however, their wording specifically says they are not.

        Even the plain "Security Guard" badges that some companies use, with the lion and shield on it, are used by police departments, with the words <City> Police on it.

        I do not believe that Mr. Security is trying to play police officer by displaying a badge in his blazer, I believe that he is trying to play security guard while working for a company that believes his attire is more fitting of a door man.
        Some Kind of Commando Leader

        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

        Comment


        • #5
          I am mall security as a part time job. I agree we have some wanna bes on the Dept. But i will atest that not all are. Yes i would like to probably be a cop in the future. But right now i am a full time air force firefighter.
          Just because i would like to be a cop does not mean i try to pull people over or play police officer. But there are those that do and those are usually the ones who dont get to be cops. But not all S/O's or even S/O's who want to be cops act like wanna bes.
          Robert
          Here endith the lesson

          Comment


          • #6
            The security work I do is all corporate (cameras and access control). We used to have operational security to look after doors and whatnot.

            One day, one of the operation security supervisors came in wearing a fake LEO badge on his belt. oooo he came so very close to getting fired that day.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Huey County
              Mr. Security,

              I am an LEO and no I don't go around saying that every S/O wants to be a cop. I see where you are coming from, but you have to think where we are coming from. The ones that I have came across personally were Mall Security Guards. I have seen them try to make stops on vehicles with there amber lights, I have seen them tell us how to do our job, and seen them on the other side of our cells.

              I work in a small Village and we don't have any corporate S/O here, so hopefully these corporations are spending money that they have doing the proper background checks and training for you guys. Since I have only dealt with Mall Security Guards, that is my general picture of all S/O.

              If you only go to the Burger King in your town and they always mess up your order, doesn't that give you a picture about Burger King's service everywhere? I try to look at the BIG picture, but you always have that image burned in the back of your mind.

              You say that you don't ever want to be a LEO and don't pretend to be, but yet I have just read a post of yours that said something about the badge you wear. It's not security looking, you always have it showing, and that that is why people act better when they are around you. True or no? If you don't pretend that what are you trying to get people to think?

              I don't want to get in a pissing match with you, I'm just giving my two cents.

              Stay Safe,
              "Huey"
              Actually, I wanted the badge that I picked out to be unmistakably security. It is the one that has nightsticks on both sides of the badge with a big star in the middle. It has huge letters that say SECURITY. That's it. Not even the word "officer" appears on it. People in general will be more willing to comply with direction if they recognize that you are just doing your job. As N.A. pointed out, my uniform has a doorman look to it and we all know what people do when a doorman tells them to quiet down or leave.

              If you have read my other posts, you know that I won't work for security companies that use weapons because it's not for me. I have no desire to take anyone into custody. I have the education and the ability to work in armed security, even LE. It's simply not what I want.

              I appreciate your Burger King analogy and I understand what you mean. Can your department do anything to improve the situation at the Mall(s) in your area? Have you addressed your concerns and experiences with Mall management? Believe me, we don't like it either when security oversteps its authority, because it causes problems for the rest of us.
              Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

              Comment


              • #8
                I have no desire to be a Police officer.
                That said, I have a job to do as a Security Officer for the client and that includes some tasks that many police officers may consider within their realm. Wearing a "hard" uniform and patroling in a marked vehicle is part of being a visible deterent which the client wanted when he contracted with us. The uniform and badge I wear in no way makes me a cop wannabe. I'm there for the 99.5% of the jerks that will see our patrols and look for an easier target elsewhere. For the other 0.5% I call 911 and let the cops earn those Homeland Security grants they've been applying for.
                Enforcing the rules of the facility where I'm assigned may involve 'lighting up' a vehicle, pulling it over and writing up a incident ticket for violations such as speeding, damaging equiptment or other violations. These writeup tickets have resulted in certain contracters and visitors being banned from future admittance to our facility. Don't get mad at us for making traffic stops on private property. It's part of our job description.
                We first respond to fire and security alarms and those of us working as dual role EMT/Security Officers respond to medical emergencies, transport patients and even conduct post-accident drug screens (piss tests). We are there, on private property, acting as the eyes and ears of our client by being a visible and proactive presence.
                While there are certainly some SOs who want to become police officers, many of us have no such dream. We only ask that police officers recognise that we have a job to do and stop perpetuating sterotypes.
                Hospital Security Officer

                Comment


                • #9
                  Police forget where they came from.....................

                  What alot of Public Security Officers (thats Police Officers to the lay person) forget is that they owe their very existence to Private Security.

                  Long before there was an LAPD or an NYPD or a Secret Service (Pinkerton started them out and they still resent it) or any of the Federal, State and local alphabet soup agencies there were Private Security.

                  Private Armies, Bounty Hunters, Bodyguards, Rail Road Agents, take your pick...they all predate our system of Government Police that has only been around for less than 200 years.

                  So in all reality....who wants to be who??

                  What happened was that the Gov't decided one day that it could perform these functions better than the private sector...and we all see the end result and I for one am not impressed.

                  I know a guy that is dumb as a box of rocks...and worked at a local Sheriff's Office for 20 years he has all kinds of certificates that say he knows what he's doing and was even in charge of training for a large segment of the Agency...When he retired and tried to go private sector he couldn't because he's so stupid...and I don't say that to put the guy down but to illustrate my point.

                  Don't let these Govt Security Guards fool you, the only thing that gets the majority of them by is the power of the State behind them and thats it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Talon, Well said!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have worked in LE as well as a P.I. and also in proprietary security. Frankly, I?ve worked with some very professional people in private security and I?ve seen some real morons as well. What seems to differentiate the morons from the pros is the level of training and hiring processes. Many contract companies will just run the newly hired officer through 16 to 40 hours of basic training and send them out in the field. These are the folks that LE is complaining about.

                      The professionals that I?ve worked with have at least some college as well as certified law enforcement training. This comes in handy when the security officer is faced with criminal activity and is placed in a position where knowing the elements of a crime and defensive tactics can come in handy vs. urinating oneself.

                      So, I guess the answer to the problem would be to have the various regulatory agencies increase the amount of training that security officers receive and extensive background checks, but considering that many security firms are out to make a buck off of anyone with a pulse, this will probably never happen.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Talon hit the nail on the head. The first federal agency in the US was the Marshals Service, September 1789. George Washington appointed the first 13 Marshals.
                        Pinkerton was a private corporation used by many government and private agencies. The railroad police served not only the railroad but in many instances were used in towns along the railroad.
                        When feuding between various "groups of holders of the peace" got out of hand local, state or territory government leaders got together and established specialized bodies of enforment officials.
                        Enjoy the day,
                        Bill

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I am very fortunate with my past employer as an armed agent, the LE department and the agency had a good working relationship. The LE deparment knew who the wannabees were and who knew were their limits. Infact New Years morning at one of our sites we had a fight with about 250 subjects involved. The LE department was very grateful for our assistance.
                          Within municapality the LE did not have time to make business checks and depended on us for their eyes and ears and it worked well.

                          It hurts the s/o's that actually know what they are doing, but when a LE agent see's one guard with a sloppy uniform and unable to give details, it makes an inpression that s/o's are not as professional.
                          and I blame some of this on the employer because they want to find a body to fill a position.

                          This is not meant to pi$$ anyone off

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The analogy of Public Security Guard is apt, and in most cases, quite true. Law Enforcement, over the past 50 years, has seen a marked improvement in training. It used to be, public or private, so long as you could shoot straight and fight well, you had a job as a public security agent.

                            I sincerely doubt that the states will ever attempt to pass massive training legislation in the way they have for law enforcement. Mainly because the training legislation provides protections for the LE agency's governmental body. Many security companies have stated, "We don't need this insane level of training in private security, because all you do is sit in a gate house and check people in, or guard an empty field on a construction site." (There are actual quotations in USA Today by several multi-national companies to this effect.)

                            What this is really saying, of course, is that the client does not want enforcement of law and protection of property/persons, but merely another method of reducing liability if they are the victim of crime or unsafe conditions. They want another tactic they can use against their insurance carrier who refuses to pay off, citing that they're not responsible because the guard failed to prevent it, so the insurance carrier should pay off.

                            Alot of warm body security is simply passing the buck onto a 5.50 an hour employee.
                            Some Kind of Commando Leader

                            "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                              Alot of warm body security is simply passing the buck onto a 5.50 an hour employee.
                              I will second that. It is shame that someone has to be put in a position to take an hourly rate like that kowing he is in need of a job. I think that a set standard should be in affect that a nationwide training level should be established.

                              I tried getting my past employer to get everyone cpr/aed & basic first aid certified but they did not want to here of it. It ticked me off because in case of a medical emergency the average person would seek the s/o for help. Also this would hopefully increase the chances by getting a better paying contract aswell.

                              Comment

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