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  • tough clients and how to deal with em...

    well lets say. there is this client that none of the guards like, becaues this client wants you to walk for 12 hours straigth and not sit down for more then 10 secs, this client wants you to continous rove, and hit tour points every hour, this client does not allow you to be in the guard shack no longer then to fill out your paperwork, this client requires you to continous rove, no stopping no sitting, no leaning... this client reviews the cameras every monday, and if the client sees something the client does not like, the client calls the company office to complain that the officer havent done their job proper, but this client is one of the companies longest clients, but the client doesnt even talk to the site supervisor about said unsatisfactory preforce of site guards, this client reports only to the company office, and does not like to work with the site guards... how would you deal with such clients ?

    Me personally i would drop the account as the client wants robots, and its inhuman to require some one to walk non-stop, on an all out doors property, in high heat..... officer safety comes first imo.
    Its not how we die that counts.....
    Its not how we lived that counts....
    all that matters is how we saved that one life that one time by being in the right place at the right time....

  • #2
    Why is there a site supervisor? It sounds like the company has no need for one.

    Also, this is pretty much the job, for real. You're not paid to sit, you're paid to make tours of the property.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #3
      Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
      Why is there a site supervisor? It sounds like the company has no need for one.

      Also, this is pretty much the job, for real. You're not paid to sit, you're paid to make tours of the property.
      I know where you are coming from, but I disagree. In my 15 years, I have never worked at a place or heard of a place locally that had such expectations of it's officers. I wouldn't work one day under such conditions. I worked a patrol route, where in an 8 hour shift, you probably walked for 6 hours, but you had the break of driving from building to building. Tours don't need to be constant.

      This type of account seems to deviate far from the norm in the security field. As long as the majority of accounts and security jobs do not have these expectations, I can only imagine the turnover will be through the roof and good officers will go to your competitors before they will tolerate constant touring in the heat.

      I would tell this client that has much as you have appreciated his business over the years, the climate of the industry is such that you are no longer able to meet his stated demands. If he wants to revise his expectations, you should work with him. If not, tell him goodbye and good luck.

      Comment


      • #4
        My thoughts are, If the guard is roving all the time, how is that being unpredictable? Part of the job is not setting a routine so the bad guys know when to hit the place, not to mention, if they did, the guard would be so dam worn out what could he/she do? Especially in the heat. I do understand that patrol is part of the job, but in the heat of a day ones observation, reporting and all other skills do diminish. So I would also say, if the client wants constant patrol, then get a golf cart or a patrol vehicle to accommodate this. But if the client still insisted on a guard foot patrol......I would then say; I am sorry, but I can no longer meet your expectations. Have a nice day, goodbye. Then drop the account and replace it with another one.
        "You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em."
        (Lieutenant General Lewis B. Puller, USMC, Marine, 1962.)

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        • #5
          It sounds like the client is creating and knowingly being permitted by the security company employer to create a hostile working environemnt that is dangerous to the Security Officers health and safety.

          The sad truth of our industry is that too often the employer simply does not care about the working conditions s/o's are forced to endure and the associated danagers, risks and adverse effects sustained. Money almost always has more value than safety, human life, liberty, and so forth.

          I do have one question - are the s/o's permitted to carry water with them or do they have unobstructed access to a source of water in or outside the buildings, throughout the entire time they are patrolling in weather constituting extreme heat? If not, a valid claim might exist that the client and employer are knowingly endangering the lives of the s/o's.

          In terms of what to do - clearly the client is not going to change on his or her own, and I very much doubt that the threat of losing the contract is going to hold any weight when the client can merely contract with another company. Thus, short of filing a complaint with OSHA on allegaitons that the working conditions present a danager to ones health, welfare and personal safety by virtue of being forced to endure extreme weather conditions with no opportunity to duck and cover in a sheltered area for a sufficient length of time. The only other option is to either simply refuse to work at this post or continue to deal with the forced working conditions existing.

          Personally, I would file a complaint with OSHA - it tends to send a very loud wake up call when those violating the law are hit with thousands of dollars in fines and are not told who filed the complaint.
          Last edited by Christopherstjo; 06-12-2007, 06:33 AM.

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          • #6
            Here in CA such demands would be against the labor laws. Every two hours a ten minute break is required. If more than six hours are worked a half hour break is required and must be started before the fifth hour of work begins. If more than ten hours are worked then a second half hour break is required. If a shift goes beyond eight hours then then overtime pay (ie:time and a half) must be paid. Double time is required beyond twelve hours.
            I would explain this to the client and if they were unwilling to work within these rules then I would drop the account. Of course I would also explain that a happy worker is a good worker, and that if they lightened up a bit they would get better results. Of course I would use speak in a professional tone at all times.
            "Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists. " Author Unknown

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            • #7
              Sounds to me, if I were the contracting Security Agency, that I would drop the account and tell them to find someone else to provide coverage, or let them form their own security patrol... I understand that more than a few clients that contract security firms think that "they" themselves can dictate what an Officer can or cannot do while on duty...

              It shouldn't be up to the client to decide how an Officer performs his duties, unless it is expressly written in the employment contract and agreed upon by the Officer's agency (in most cases anyway); Common sense alone and even an Officer that takes the job extremely seriously will tell you that yeah, a 12 hour shift that is to be a constant driving/walking/etc. patrol with no leeway for a proportionate break is at a minimum a violation of Federal "hourly wage employee" law regarding breaks at work...

              I found this, take it as you will...

              "Over the past 12 years, with more than one million people viewing this paper, the second most "popular" subject on this web site has been rest periods and meal breaks. We will leave this intact for the benefit of employees and employers who continue to visit this site. However, up-to-date changes in codes and rules regarding maximum hours of work in a work week can only be found in the member's section.

              This will be a shorter paper than you might expect: only seven states have statutes regarding breaks, and astonishingly there is no federal law on either break or meal periods. I know, I know: one would think that rest periods would be covered by some law since (at least to me) there is a safety issue as well as just some common sense management practice that would say that employees need breaks in the day.

              To be fair (sort of) there are 17 states which do have meal period laws, but these average 25 minutes...barely enough to eat... (See below.)

              Okay, here is a list of the eight states with laws pertaining to rest breaks:

              BREAKS:

              California: Employees must get a 10-minute break for every four hours worked provided that the work day is at least five hours long.

              Colorado: 10 minutes for every four hours worked.

              Kentucky: 10 minutes for every four hours worked.

              (Maine: 30 minutes after six hours of work which may also be used as a meal period. See below.)

              Minnesota: "Reasonable" amount of time in a four-hour period "to use the restroom."

              Nevada: 10 minutes for every four hours worked.

              Oregon: 10 minutes for every four hours worked.

              Washington: 10 minutes for every four hours worked.

              That's it. Maine doesn't really count, so there are still seven states instead of eight.

              Note that there may be special laws pertaining to specific industries in all states, e.g., mining in West Virginia and Pennsylvania, or factory work in New York and Massachusetts. And there certainly are child labor laws encompassing breaks and meal periods, i.e., minors working in the motion picture industry in California. However, I was not able to find any statutes or work orders.

              Payment for Break and Meal Periods: Under 29 CFR 785.18 (Code of Federal Regulations) breaks of five to twenty minutes must be paid by the employer while, for a meal period to be unpaid, has to be at least 30 minutes uninterrupted by work. Note again, however, that federal law does not mandate breaks or meal periods.


              MEAL PERIODS:


              CA = 30 minutes if workday is 6 hours or more (See California Employer's Bulletin for changes)

              CO = 30 minutes. If workday is at least 5 hours. (Until 2004, it was 6 hours.)

              CT = 30 minutes after 7 and 1/2 hour workday.

              DE = 30 minutes after 7 and 1/2 hour workday.

              HI = 45 minutes, but only for (state?) government employees.

              IL = 20 minutes after 7 and 1/2 hour workday.

              KY = "Reasonable" amount of time for meal breaks.

              ME = 30 minutes after 6 hours of work.

              MA = 30 minutes after 6 hours of work.

              MN = "Sufficient time" in an 8-hour work period.

              NE = 30 minutes between noon and 1 P.M. in workshops, on assembly lines, or "mechanical establishments."

              NV = 30 minutes for every 8 hours of work.

              NH = 30 minutes for every 5 hours of work.

              NM = 30 minutes.

              NY = 30 minutes if shift is 6 hours or more; an additional 20 minutes if shift starts before 11 AM and goes beyond 7 PM, mercantile; 60 minutes, factory.

              ND = 30 minutes for work period over 5 hours.

              OR = 30 minutes for work period of 6 to 8 hours.

              TN = 30 minutes for every 6-hour work period.

              WA = 30 minutes for every 5-hour work period.

              WV = 20 minutes.

              WI = 30 minutes for workdays of 6 hours.

              WY = 60 minutes for employees who must work on their feet.


              States in which employees must receive one day off from work out of every seven (essentially, one day a week):

              California
              Illinois
              Maryland
              New York
              North Dakota
              Rhode Island
              Maximum Hours and Employee Can Be Made to Work - See Subscribers Section and Labor Pains

              Changes to rest and meal break codes including repealed laws for 2000-2007 can be found only in the subscriber's section only. Click here to subscribe for complete access."
              “Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left”
              "I swear to God, I'm going to pistol whip the next guy that says 'Shenanigans' "... Capt. O'Hagan, "Super Troopers"

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              • #8
                Originally posted by UtahProtectionForce View Post
                well lets say. there is this client that none of the guards like, becaues this client wants you to walk for 12 hours straigth and not sit down for more then 10 secs, this client wants you to continous rove, and hit tour points every hour, this client does not allow you to be in the guard shack no longer then to fill out your paperwork, this client requires you to continous rove, no stopping no sitting, no leaning... this client reviews the cameras every monday, and if the client sees something the client does not like, the client calls the company office to complain that the officer havent done their job proper, but this client is one of the companies longest clients, but the client doesnt even talk to the site supervisor about said unsatisfactory preforce of site guards, this client reports only to the company office, and does not like to work with the site guards... how would you deal with such clients ?

                Me personally i would drop the account as the client wants robots, and its inhuman to require some one to walk non-stop, on an all out doors property, in high heat..... officer safety comes first imo.

                When the contract comes up for renewal, I would write a provision into it requiring paid breaks every 2-4 hours. Paid, because the security officer is still on-site and available to respond.
                ATTN. SPECOPS AND GECKO45 my secret username is CIDDECEP and I am your S2. My authorization code is Six Wun Quebec Oscar Fife. Your presence here is tactically dangerous and compromises our overall mission parameter. Cease and desist all activity on this board. Our “enemies” are deft at computer hacking and may trace you back to our primary locale. You have forced me to compromise my situation to protect your vulnerable flank. This issue will be addressed later.

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                • #9
                  I worked an account in downtown St. Paul once that was most of a whole city block. There was an apartment building, a womens shelter, a medical arts building, a small shopping mall, and part of the skyway system. All of the clients in that block pooloed their money together to have one guard at a time during the weekdays and two on the weekends. We had an office in the entryway of the apartment building with a half door where our desk was so we could see into the lobby. One day, the client from the medical arts building walked through while I was eating lunch. She stopped and looked at me, didn't say a word, and left. Ten minutes later, I got a call from the security company office asking me what I was doing. I said "I'm eating my lunch." they said "Oh, the lady from the medical building just called and complained that you were sitting there eating. We were a little confused and didn't respond to her statement right away, and she said 'Well, is he allowed to do that?' and we told her 'Ma'am, he's working a double, and even if he wasn't, he still needs to eat and take a break once in a while, he has a big area to cover by himself." They actually would go to bat for you back in the day.
                  Apparently a HUGE cop wannabe...

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                  • #10
                    well i have put in requests to not work that site, also i have spoken with some employees that work directly under the client and they do think the client can be a little bit on the annal side. and yes there is access to a drinking fountain and a restroom, but that is under a hallway that is under camera and if your caught in the hallway for too long your in trouble with the client. and to point out again it is a outdoor park, a city block long, privatley funded, city operated public park. it gets to be over 100 degrees, and to continous rove, non stop is the job, now the site supervisor is trying to get the client to allow the security staff to be allowed to wear shorts instead of having to be in pants all the time, the site supervisor is also trying to get approval for a bicycle or a golf cart, to reduce "down" time while walking and hit the points so we can be more visable. but anyways.. good news is i am off to a better place starting monday, saturday will be my last day down at that said property, i will be going back to an armed contract, in an air conditioned building, doing rounds once an hour and posting at a desk, and helping visitors to the facility. after complaining for over a month to be transfered i got one he he, and its monday-friday instead of weekends
                    Its not how we die that counts.....
                    Its not how we lived that counts....
                    all that matters is how we saved that one life that one time by being in the right place at the right time....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Grats on the new site.
                      I'm sitting here massaging my newly blistered foot. And I get to take breaks. I can't imagine what my feet would be like if never got a break. Or my back, hips etc.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Andy Taylor View Post
                        Here in CA such demands would be against the labor laws. Every two hours a ten minute break is required. If more than six hours are worked a half hour break is required and must be started before the fifth hour of work begins. If more than ten hours are worked then a second half hour break is required. If a shift goes beyond eight hours then then overtime pay (ie:time and a half) must be paid. Double time is required beyond twelve hours.
                        I would explain this to the client and if they were unwilling to work within these rules then I would drop the account. Of course I would also explain that a happy worker is a good worker, and that if they lightened up a bit they would get better results. Of course I would use speak in a professional tone at all times.
                        that is unless they have you sign a contract stating that you may not get a lunch.
                        Todd

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                        • #13
                          If I were that company I would definently try to keep the client by writing provisions requiring breaks but ultimately the health and safety of the officers come before that client. If I were the officer I would request a transfer.
                          Todd

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