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  • #16
    Where do you see I was keeping one for me and one for my employer?? (Gosh darn censor), I said my employer does not have supervisors keep DARs. So I keep my own for my records so I don't forget anything. If my employer wants a copy of it he asks. Been done before. NOWHERE did I say I keep it from my employer. You ASS U MEd and well you seem to be quite good about making an ASS out of yourself. The second notebook is for me to jot a quick note on a time or name before I put it in the good book I call it. I keep both sets of books available at anytime to my employer, law enforcement and client. I have them going back 7 years. My employer doesn't even keep IRs or DARs that long.

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    • #17
      Wait, we can say ass?
      "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
      "The Curve" 1998

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      • #18
        Originally posted by BHR Lawson View Post
        Wait, we can say ass?
        Well, probably not...

        Sorry Nathan

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        • #19
          GCMC Security

          When one writes "Basically I have my own little book of DARs as well as another notebook I use for actual notes." It tends to create what is called "reasonable cause to believe" that the writer is indicating that they are keeping two sets of books - one for them and one for their employer.

          And since, despite your allegation against me, NOWHERE, in your post did you write that you share your notes with your employer. You again create reasonable cause to believe that you do not share such with your employer, especially when you clearly point out that you keep two sets of books by writing ". . .as well as another notebook I use for actual notes." The key word here being "another" so as to indicate a second set of documentation separate from your ". . .own little book of DARs. . ."

          Hence, maybe if you would pay more attention to what you write you would not mislead the reader into believing or thinking something exists that you claim, as an after thought, does not. And maybe if you were adult / professional enough to simply just admit you were wrong in your assumptions and efforts to attack me, you would not look like you do now.
          Last edited by Christopherstjo; 06-05-2007, 02:51 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Christopherstjo View Post
            GCMC Security

            When one writes "Basically I have my own little book of DARs as well as another notebook I use for actual notes." It tends to create what is called "reasonable cause to believe" that the writer is indicating that they are keeping two sets of books - one for them and one for their employer.

            And since, despite your allegation against me, NOWHERE, in your post did you write that you share your notes with your employer. You again create reasonable cause to believe that you do not share such with your employer, especially when you clearly point out that you keep two sets of books by writing ". . .as well as another notebook I use for actual notes." The key word here being "another" so as to indicate a second set of documentation separate from your ". . .own little book of DARs. . ."

            Hence, maybe if you would pay more attention to what you write you would not mislead the reader into believing or thinking something exists that you claim, as an after thought, does not. And maybe if you were adult / professional enough to simply just admit you were wrong in your assumptions and efforts to attack me, you would not look like you do now.
            You're making something out of nothing. Relax. He doesn't owe you an explanation, he said that he forgot to include in his post that he shares the notes with his employer, that his employer knows he takes these notes and does not have a problem with it. You should leave it at that, he's not the enemy. Try to remember we're all doing the same job here. This is a support forum, not a criminal trial.

            I agree with him that a notebook is a great idea, I did an internship with a police department and it was 1 day a week for 17 weeks, and when we were talking about certain things I witnessed, I had a tough time recalling who did what to whom...sometimes forgetting even what officer I was with during the incident. I can't imagine 5 days a week, talking to hundreds of people a month and then being asked to recall it several years later and say "Oh yeah, I remember John Smith, he's the guy that XYZ'd over at ABC's house." If your employer doesn't have a problem with you taking notes, take notes. The employer may want a copy of the notes, they may not.

            You're making it sound like he's flat out lying about something, and the truth is that he doesn't owe you an explanation. He didn't include it in his original post because it's really not that important. When it was brought to attention that the notes could be company property, he quickly replied that he provided copies of them to his supervisors upon request. At that point, the subject should have been dropped, not turned into an accusation of omission.

            You're arguing semantics and playing word games with GCMC, and at this point it is no longer contributing to this thread.

            Let's move it along.
            Anything that hits the fan,
            Will not be evenly distributed.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by GCMC Security View Post
              Well, probably not...

              Sorry Nathan
              Um, yellow card?

              Seriously, "ass" as in the "assume" is about the same level of damn, and I use that one liberally.
              Some Kind of Commando Leader

              "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Contact View Post
                You're arguing semantics and playing word games with GCMC, and at this point it is no longer contributing to this thread.
                In our job "semantics" can mean the difference between getting fired or having a job; winning a criminal case or being sued because you lost.

                All too often I see s/o's not paying attention to what they write and say - presupposing that it does not matter when it does and can get them into serious legal and other kinds of trouble as well has harm themselves in ways they never thought about in the first place, such as claiming unemployment benefits later in life. Hence, my points are not meant to ridicule but to educate because of the seiousness involved and the necessity to take all aspects of our jobs seriously at all times.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Christopherstjo View Post
                  In our job "semantics" can mean the difference between getting fired or having a job; winning a criminal case or being sued because you lost.

                  All too often I see s/o's not paying attention to what they write and say - presupposing that it does not matter when it does and can get them into serious legal and other kinds of trouble as well has harm themselves in ways they never thought about in the first place, such as claiming unemployment benefits later in life. Hence, my points are not meant to ridicule but to educate because of the seiousness involved and the necessity to take all aspects of our jobs seriously at all times.
                  You could have fooled me, because right after he said "I forgot to say I secrete my notes to the supervisors." you came back with "Okay, show me where you said you secrete notes!" ...I mean...he JUST said he forgot to say it. Instead of saying "alright, no biggie" you tried made it look like he was hiding info, and it was his third day on the job.

                  I still contend that he did not mince words, rather he left out a piece of information that really wasn't important (and when it became important, he was forthright with the info).
                  Anything that hits the fan,
                  Will not be evenly distributed.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Contact,
                    Christopher likes to start this kind of stuff. Just look around a bit at his posts. Thank you for calling him on it. I tend to ignore him.
                    "Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists. " Author Unknown

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Contact View Post
                      I still contend that he did not mince words, rather he left out a piece of information that really wasn't important (and when it became important, he was forthright with the info).
                      Great - but in a day and age where the law matters more than mere opinion, failing or refusing to include tid bits of information that mean all the difference between doing something illegal verses legal can mean the difference between having a job or being unemployed and so forth. Trivialize it if you want but my point is valid.

                      The fact that you believe the informaiton he left out wasn't important when it was the defining point of whether or not he was doing something unethical, illegal or simply in violaiton of policy, is very concerning.

                      This forum is a good place to learn from our mistakes so we do not make them on our jobs and find ourselves suffering greatly because of such. If people are so afraid of being confronted on their mistakes then one must question what kind of professional they will ever become. We work in a field that sometimes, all it takes is one mistake to screw up our careers and land us in very hot legal waters.

                      In GCMC's original post to me, he spared no expense in blasting me with criticisms for my advice to Craig333, without provocation - where were you to say, hey GCMC calm down he was just giving Craig333 some useful advice? But you want to criticize me for rebutting his criticisms at me, and pointing out the obvious mistakes he made - rather bias of you there Contact
                      Last edited by Christopherstjo; 06-06-2007, 02:15 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Christopherstjo View Post
                        Great - but in a day and age where the law matters more than mere opinion, failing or refusing to include tid bits of information that mean all the difference between doing something illegal verses legal can mean the difference between having a job or being unemployed and so forth. Trivialize it if you want but my point is valid.
                        You speak the truth, but we are not at work. We are on a forum of other security professionals.

                        The fact that you believe the informaiton he left out wasn't important when it was the defining point of whether or not he was doing something unethical, illegal or simply in violaiton of policy, is very concerning.
                        Uhh...it wasn't important. He was not addressing the legality of his actions, he was addressing practicality of those actions.

                        This forum is a good place to learn from our mistakes so we do not make them on our jobs and find ourselves suffering greatly because of such. If people are so afraid of being confronted on their mistakes then one must question what kind of professional they will ever become. We work in a field that sometimes, all it takes is one mistake to screw up our careers and land us in very hot legal waters.
                        I agree that there are consequences for our actions, but again, that's not what was being addressed.

                        In GCMC's original post to me, he spared no expense in blasting me with criticisms for my advice to Craig333, without provocation - where were you to say, hey GCMC calm down he was just giving Craig333 some useful advice? But you want to criticize me for rebutting his criticisms at me, and pointing out the obvious mistakes he made - rather bias of you there Contact
                        Not bias at all, you were addressing an argument that did not exist. In the post he was responding to, you said while some may think it is no big deal to take secrete notes about what goes on during their shifts; employment law generally says it is a big deal and is grounds for immediate termination on the premise that it is stealing confidential information from their employer or concealing relevant facts from the employer about ones job duties and job activity.

                        By "some" you meant GCMC, and I can see why he got fired up about it. Reading that, you basically accused him of keeping secret notes about what happens on company time, and inadvertantly accused him of stealing company documents. You can try to spin it any way you'd like, but that's how it came across to me, and I'm not putting words in GCMCs mouth, but I'll bet that's what caused him to reply in the manner he did.

                        You posted those comments accusationally, rather than quizzically. Instead of asking him if the supervisors know about the notebooks, you assumed he was taking notes unbeknownst to the administration.
                        Anything that hits the fan,
                        Will not be evenly distributed.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I agree

                          Take as many notes as you can. Report the problems to the relevant managers.
                          That way at least you can say you care.

                          I have a special saying for that. C.A.R.E,,, Cover Ass Retain Employment.
                          We haven't had trouble for a while, Let's cancel security!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by crankloud View Post
                            I have a special saying for that. C.A.R.E,,, Cover Ass Retain Employment.
                            Now I like that one - you hit the nail right on head

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                            • #29
                              Another 1

                              Here's one for our drug dependant long term patients,,,

                              They are, TFBUNDY
                              Totally, F &@*ed, But, Unfortunately, Not, Dead, Yet.
                              (I don't like swearing on forums)
                              We haven't had trouble for a while, Let's cancel security!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by crankloud View Post
                                Here's one for our drug dependant long term patients,,,

                                They are, TFBUNDY
                                Totally, F &@*ed, But, Unfortunately, Not, Dead, Yet.
                                (I don't like swearing on forums)
                                Swearing is against the rules, and we hand out warning/infraction notices. Get too many, and we think it bans you for a week. We don't know yet, nobody's ever gotten too many cards since the new system came in.
                                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                                Comment

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