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  • #16
    Originally posted by echo06 View Post
    I was advised that K-9's are covered under the DHS however, they must be EOD trained in order to qualify for it.
    We're looking at getting two bomb dogs here, that's why I looked into it. But if it gets authorized here, it's coming out of the budget, too much red tape in government grants.
    Apparently a HUGE cop wannabe...

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    • #17
      I am brand new here so bear with me if I say anything that has already been said a million times already.

      I work security in a sector the government has specifically labeled as critical infrastructure- the system of substations and control centers that are the electrical distribution system for the region I live in.

      I found these forums while researching some upcoming changes at work.

      Other information I found regarding terrorism and private security may be of interest to you.

      The Congressional Research Service did a study of Critical Infrastructure Security for Congress in 2004, and in official form it substantiates much of what has been said by other forum members in this thread. Here is the report.

      Though its focus is CIS, the report is pretty comprehensive of the role of private security in homeland security overall.

      I can tell you, that after some research, even CIS in the US is a bureaucratic mess. Study after study after study.

      It seems up to the individual States to take matters into their own hands.
      formerly C&A

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
        I'm not sure how far you can go with this, though. For instance, suppose an owner of a company with 100 officers was taking home $200,000 a year and decided to take home only $100,000. Assuming even distribution of the "extra" $100,000 for wages to the 100 officers, the difference would amount to $1000 per officer per year, which is $19.23 per week, or 48 cents an hour.

        What I think really needs to happen is that security agency owners need to start bidding jobs at rates that cover all of the following:

        1. Good wages for officers with a sliding payscale for seniority, education and training.

        2. Decent benefits.

        3. Proper equipment. Up-to-date technology.

        4. Appropriate training in all areas of the security function, including medical responder or advanced first aid, emergency response, terrorism awareness and hazmat awareness.

        5. Adequate supervision.

        6. A decent profit for the company.

        What's happening now is that companies believe they can only get business if they underbid everyone else. Where can that possibly lead to except a mad race to the bottom? And, where can they cut costs except on the back of the security officer? This is no way to run a railroad, and it would be to the BENEFIT of company owners if they realized that this model of doing business is not healthy and it's not good for the industry.
        I don't entirely disagree with this, but you really have to examine the issue from a free market perspective because that is the reality we live in.

        Customers of contract security are often only looking to limit legal and civil liability and insurance premiums. As a result, there is a whole industry to fill this demand.

        If Security Company X can provide the same limitations as Security Company Y, and Security Company X is less expensive than Y, than said customer will undoubtedly go with Company X.

        The point to any business is to maximize profits. That means minimizing (profit) shrinkage. Security is a key to minimizing shrinkage but only so long as it does not increase shrinkage by being so expensive.

        Real change would only take place (in my opinion) if the State or Federal Government established uniform mandatory requirements for security and then
        also provided some financial off-set to the increased costs. Not all places require the same security so it would be up to the Gvt. to establish a scale, what type of facility requires what level of security.
        formerly C&A

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        • #19
          Originally posted by cocknaces View Post
          Real change would only take place (in my opinion) if the State or Federal Government established uniform mandatory requirements for security and then also provided some financial off-set to the increased costs. Not all places require the same security so it would be up to the Gvt. to establish a scale, what type of facility requires what level of security.
          Well said.
          Apparently a HUGE cop wannabe...

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by cocknaces View Post
            I don't entirely disagree with this, but you really have to examine the issue from a free market perspective because that is the reality we live in.

            Customers of contract security are often only looking to limit legal and civil liability and insurance premiums. As a result, there is a whole industry to fill this demand.

            If Security Company X can provide the same limitations as Security Company Y, and Security Company X is less expensive than Y, than said customer will undoubtedly go with Company X.

            The point to any business is to maximize profits. That means minimizing (profit) shrinkage. Security is a key to minimizing shrinkage but only so long as it does not increase shrinkage by being so expensive.

            Real change would only take place (in my opinion) if the State or Federal Government established uniform mandatory requirements for security and then
            also provided some financial off-set to the increased costs. Not all places require the same security so it would be up to the Gvt. to establish a scale, what type of facility requires what level of security.
            I understand the "business" arguments but I think they're flawed. Security actually could be much more expensive than it is now and, assuming it were also better because of more professionalism, still add to the bottom line, not detract from it. In fact, cheap security that does not achieve its mission is what's really expensive.
            "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

            "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

            "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

            "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

            Comment


            • #21
              I'm with a warmbody company which only requires you to have a pulse before they put you in a uniform and drop youin a chair at a guard shack somewhere. No terrorism training, no guns. Something happens, call the cops. It's great that some of you are getting the training but it won't happen at my post with my contract outfit. The company isn't interested and the client isn't either.
              Heck, forget the training. We can't even get people to hire on as guards. We are currently 3 people short. My coworker is working her 12th night in a row. When she gets releived in the morning her relief will be coming in for his 13th day in a row. 12 hour shifts. I'm working days this weekend to cover an empty EMT/SO slot then will be back on nights Monday. 2 nights, 3 days and then back for 2 nights. Thank goodness for the overtime considering I havn't had a raise in pay in 3 years.
              Hospital Security Officer

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by cocknaces View Post
                Real change would only take place (in my opinion) if the State or Federal Government established uniform mandatory requirements for security
                You are absolutely correct and yet, because we have a bunch of spineless idiots in office who do not want to "upset" private corporations, getting this done is no easy task

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by EMTGuard View Post
                  I'm with a warmbody company which only requires you to have a pulse before they put you in a uniform and drop youin a chair at a guard shack somewhere. No terrorism training, no guns. Something happens, call the cops. It's great that some of you are getting the training but it won't happen at my post with my contract outfit. The company isn't interested and the client isn't either.
                  Heck, forget the training. We can't even get people to hire on as guards. We are currently 3 people short. My coworker is working her 12th night in a row. When she gets releived in the morning her relief will be coming in for his 13th day in a row. 12 hour shifts. I'm working days this weekend to cover an empty EMT/SO slot then will be back on nights Monday. 2 nights, 3 days and then back for 2 nights. Thank goodness for the overtime considering I havn't had a raise in pay in 3 years.
                  Not intending to pry, but why not look for something better?
                  "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                  "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                  "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                  "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Two Issues

                    There are in fact, two issues we are addressing here. The first issue is well
                    understood by anyone who has worked in this business any length of time.
                    It is also a source of frustration for anyone who cares about the quality
                    of their work. Under trained, under paid, unmotivated, uncommited, and in
                    some cases, justifiably itinerant personnel occupy much of this industry.

                    Why then should we wonder that our current role in national security is in
                    most cases, no more than symbolic or a lot of empty rhetoric.

                    I have the benefit and problems of being assigned many different posts,
                    usually on short notice with little information regarding the assignment.
                    Sometimes in plain cloths, uniform, armed, unarmed, minimal to moderately
                    high danger. I have received only the minimal training required by the state.

                    My years as an armored car guard have served me well, in so far as gun
                    proficientcy, and the laws regarding its use. Observing people and their body language, looking for set ups or things that look out of place. My five decades have given me some street smarts and a little knowledge of human nature. Who is bluffing and who is not, what I think they are capable of or not.

                    However, it is a second rate substitute for critical training. Until we as an industry address this kind of "short term economic thinking", so prevalent
                    in this business, we will not be able to assume the kind of role needed in
                    today's national security environment. Our part in natinal security will continue to be a lot of empty rhetoric.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
                      Thank you very much for posting this. The situation discussed here is, in fact, a national scandal. DHS, the IACP, the DOJ and others have talked and talked and talked about "partnering" with the private security industry, but the talk has meant precious little.

                      As of now, almost six years after 9/11, my company, for instance, has never received one direct communication from any of these agencies about "partnering" in any way. Yes, we receive the national security assessment reports and occasional special notices sent out by DHS and the DOJ, but there has been no national effort to engage the private security industry in any meaningful way in homeland security.

                      The security industry is not alone in this void. The same agencies talk up a storm about "critical infrastructure" and how important it is to protect these sectors, but in reality they tell the companies occupying these sectors (financial institutions, hospitals, telecom companies, utility companies, transportation companies, etc.) that they're on their own when it comes to implementing higher levels of security. Basically, this amounts to an "unfunded mandate".

                      Of course, the national scandal with respect to the underqualification, under-training, under-equipping, under-supervising, under-compensating of security officers has nothing to do with homeland security...it's a scandal all on its own, and it was a scandal long before 9/11 brought domestic and transnational terrorism into focus.
                      There absolutely should be a partnership between law enforcement agencies and private security. What few people realize is that we are on the front lines as law enforcement in terms of combatting terrorism. Here are some links that I just used on a paper I had to write for class.


                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Ok, having a conversation over IM with someone with Valor Security about this.

                        From what I understand, most of these anti-terrorism courses are the same thing that you learn in your security guard school: Observe, report, do not intervene.

                        Florida's new four hour anti-terrorism course is instructor discretion. That means you can talk about anything related to "terrorism," which is to say... Another 4 hours of rehashing, "Observe, report, do not intervene."

                        What is private security actually supposed to do against terrorists? This is not asked facetiously, I'd like to know what people's thoughts are on this.
                        Some Kind of Commando Leader

                        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
                          Not intending to pry, but why not look for something better?
                          I have. I've looked, left and come back twice. I'm looking to leave again. Couple prospects in the wind right now.
                          Hospital Security Officer

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
                            What is private security actually supposed to do against terrorists? This is not asked facetiously, I'd like to know what people's thoughts are on this.
                            Ah, so this question's been on your mind as well! Often the most hated

                            response is "Don't worry about it! It'll never happen here!" It's moments like these when I think "Wow, I'm surrounded by

                            masses of perfect freaking victims!"
                            Last edited by FederalSecurity; 06-01-2007, 09:46 AM. Reason: More complaining.
                            "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
                            - Thomas Jefferson

                            “Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence.”
                            — Vince Lombardi

                            "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

                            IX. Strive to attain professional competence.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by DarkMetalWolf View Post
                              And there it is..........it is always about how much money it would take out of the CEOs pocket!
                              Oh yeah! I once worked for a guy that paid close to minimum wage, no insurance of any kind (makes me laugh to even think of that happening!), no training, strictly low-dollar gear (which consisted of, really, a flashlight for vehicle patrol done in the employee's private car!).

                              But he would come into the office every other day, big smile on his face, bragging about the thousands of dollars (the largest amount I remember was just over $4000) he'd won in last night's poker game, as he showed off the huge wad of bills.

                              wjohnc
                              Rule #1: Go home at the end of the day in an upright position, with everything attached, and with peace of mind for having done the job well.
                              "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them." - John Wayne (in his last movie 'The Shootist')

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
                                Ok, having a conversation over IM with someone with Valor Security about this.

                                From what I understand, most of these anti-terrorism courses are the same thing that you learn in your security guard school: Observe, report, do not intervene.

                                Florida's new four hour anti-terrorism course is instructor discretion. That means you can talk about anything related to "terrorism," which is to say... Another 4 hours of rehashing, "Observe, report, do not intervene."

                                What is private security actually supposed to do against terrorists? This is not asked facetiously, I'd like to know what people's thoughts are on this.
                                Nathan,

                                The SOs can be further trained in counter-terrorism. Each terrorist attack goes through a planning phase which includes surveillance. It is at that time- when the potential terrorists are surveilling your site that effective counter-surveillance can thwart an attack. Proper training includes count-surveillance techniques, security awareness, and safety.

                                SOs need also to note that surveillance of their facility will likely start well outside of your actual perimeter.
                                "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." G. Orwell

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