Protecting Cruise Ship from Pirates

[SIW Editor]

Thought everyone would enjoy this story. I don't think this is typical work for security officers at luxury cruiselines. Amazing effort from this man:

http://www.securityinfowatch.com/onl...ip/11224SIW457

[mh892]

I watched a tape about cruise ship and cargo ship security not long ago.

These people are restricted to water cannons and that noise making machine as equipment for the protection of mega-million dollar ships and the priceless lives of hundreds of people. As explained this is due to insurance restrictions and laws of various countries and the law of the sea. Seems if security people are armed the ship is considered combatant.

Now, on the other hand the bad guys can carry AK47, rockets, granaids, etc. and use any boarding tactic they choose.

Am I missing something here?

[N. A. Corbier]

This has to be PR. I worked on a vessel where the ship's security force (First Mate and First Able Seaman) were armed with Glock 17s, Uzis, and Mossberg 500s. The contract security detail took over when they made berth and watched the ship for the night. But on the water, they were the sole LE presence on the ship.

[Lawson]

Recently while looking into some security for cruise ships, one of the job requirements said, "Applicant must have extensive experience and proficiency in the handling and use of firearms" so this leads me to believe this particular cruise line had armed security.

[Black Caesar]

I found a number of articles, all suggesting armed security for some cruise lines, not none coming right out and saying it.

How safe are we at sea

Some lines carry security to extremes: Princess Cruises uses Gurkahs, the famed and extremely fierce Nepalese fighters of the British Army, for it's fleetwide security force. They have been in place for some time; at last report, there were at least six on both Grand Princess and Golden Princess.

Passengers often ask if there are armed security personnel aboard. For obvious reasons, I cant answer that--but no one really wants to find out, do they?

USA today

Kenneth Bissonnette, staff manager for surveillance and security at Carnival Cruise Lines, told The Associated Press in March 2004 that security personnel for the world's largest cruise line didn't carry firearms, but had defenses like pepper spray. He said the company's security staff recruited heavily among Gurkhas, elite Nepalese soldiers renowned for their fearlessness.

Bissonnette declined to comment Monday. Tim Gallagher, a spokesman for company parent Carnival Corp., declined to comment on specific security procedures.

Cruise lines are reluctant to have armed guards onboard because that might hurt their image with some passengers, said William Callahan, president of maritime security consultant Unitel. He proposes that they should have armed speedboats as escorts when traveling in dangerous areas.

So I don't know, but I'm sure there is "more than meets the eye" when you get right down to it....

[Black Caesar]

Recently while looking into some security for cruise ships, one of the job requirements said, "Applicant must have extensive experience and proficiency in the handling and use of firearms" so this leads me to believe this particular cruise line had armed security.

www.cruiseplacement.com

Security Officer (handles all shipboard security for the vessel , drugs interdiction). All applicable certifications by a recognized maritime government body required. Extensive experience in security and firearms handling required. Military background preferred. Fluent English Language skills required. Salary range: 2200-2600 U.S. dollars a month, depending on the cruise line.


Security Personnel (handles all shipboard security of the vessel as directed by the Security Officer). Extensive experience in security and firearms handling required. Military background preferred. Salary range: 1600-1800 U.S. dollars a month, depending on the cruise line.

[SEO_09]

The first thing that you must know about all merchant vessals that sail in the open oceans is that any armed personnel or built on armerments makes the ship a combatant ship. The last ships that were allowed to be armed in the merchant fleet, which is all privately owned merchant ships, were the liberty ship and that made them fair game for attack.

[Mr. Security]

There is a thread on pirates somewhere in the archives here if anyone is interested in reading some additional comments on this problem. I don't know how to post a link or I would post it from my thread history.

[Black Caesar]

This what you lookin for?

In our 2nd year of marriage, my wife and I took the 2 day "cruise to no where" and loved it. We're always talking about what we're going to do in 10 years when the last of our kids are grown, and right now "buy an RV, see North America and become neo-gypsys" is in the lead, but working on a cruise line (me in security, her as a ship board nurse) is high on the list too. One of the security guys I met was a former OU Campus Police Officer and he said he loved it (seemed like an alright guy, even for an okkie ). Just seems like it could be a cool job...

[SecTrainer]

The first thing that you must know about all merchant vessals that sail in the open oceans is that any armed personnel or built on armerments makes the ship a combatant ship. The last ships that were allowed to be armed in the merchant fleet, which is all privately owned merchant ships, were the liberty ship and that made them fair game for attack.

I'd be interested in a reference to this assertion as I couldn't find one.

What I did find was that the definition of "combatant" versus "non-combatant" ships has been a source of considerable debate in maritime law since long before Germany began to sink merchant ships in WW I and said they were "combatants".

Now, it seems that at least the working definition of a "combatant vessel" is one that is armed for naval combat or engaged in supporting or supplying such vessels, troop carriers, etc. Some definitions seem to go further by requiring that the vessel be formally commissioned by or operating under the authority of the naval or other armed forces of a particular nation.

I couldn't find anything to indicate that the mere presence of armed security personnel aboard a pleasure cruise ship would qualify that ship to be legitimately considered "combatant". It's hard to imagine an international maritime court upholding the sinking of such a cruise ship on that basis, for instance. In fact, I doubt there are many ships afloat today on which you won't find a pistol or other firearm in the captain's cabin, the first mate's locker or somewhere on board, so this definition seems quite bizarre.

This is not to say, of course, that a rogue nation such as Iran might not formulate its own definition of "combatant vessel" to suit its own aggressive purposes, as Germany did, but that's a different geopolitical kettle of fish.

Anyway, the law is a strange animal and I might just be looking in the wrong places, so if anyone has references to maritime or admiralty law, the Federal Code, treaties, case law etc. addressing this topic I'd be much obliged.

[OccamsRazor]

One of my good friends is an officer on a commercial vessel (read: container ship) that makes a regular run from LA-SF-Seattle-Yokahama-Singapore-Hong Kong-?? then reverse. He's told me they've had a few real problems with real 'pirates' in the Indonesia area in the past, and they have an 'arms locker' aboard. They practice when out at sea.

[SecTrainer]

One of my good friends is an officer on a commercial vessel (read: container ship) that makes a regular run from LA-SF-Seattle-Yokahama-Singapore-Hong Kong-?? then reverse. He's told me they've had a few real problems with real 'pirates' in the Indonesia area in the past, and they have an 'arms locker' aboard. They practice when out at sea.

I understand that this is fairly common in the commercial maritime industry.

[OccamsRazor]

I understand that this is fairly common in the commercial maritime industry.

Per him, it was strictly verboten to have any kind of weapon, even a pocketknife, with his last company. The new one sorta encourages it, apparently.

[sgtnewby]

www.cruiseplacement.com

Dang, they don't pay very well...

[Black Caesar]

Dang, they don't pay very well...

Yea, but you gotta think about the perks. Free room and board during the cruise saves you lots and lots of money. The guy I spoke to on that cruise mentioned getting free minor medical care via the Ship's infirmary, and so on.

Maybe not the gig for younger folk, but it seemed to me most of the professional crew member types I saw seemed to be around 40ish.

The guy told me there were lots of ex- and retired navy and coast guard people working that kind of thing. Which is why my wife and I are considering such a thing after our kids are grown, we'll have fewer expenses then.