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I got "Badged" by a S/O today......

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  • I got "Badged" by a S/O today......

    So I'm driving down a two lane back road tonight (making a late night food run) when I come up on an OLD pick up truck driving really slow ,about 20 mph, speed limit on that road was 40.

    For a whole half mile or so I follow this guy, the line in the road way is a solid yellow "do not pass" line because of the hill and a short bridge, but after the bridge the solid line stops (turning into separated yellow "dash" lines, meaning you can pass). So I signal and pass the guy, heck I only had to speed up to something like 30mph to pass him. No big deal right?

    Well, a half mile later I get to the stop light at the highway and this guy ( a middle aged white male with a scruffy beards and hair down to his shoulders) pulls up next to me and honks his horn.
    I rolled down my passenger side window (with my left hand on the power window control, my right hand was on the butt of my Beretta ) and this guy screams "don't you ever pass someone on a two lane road like that, it's illegal and thats how you have accidents!!". If that's all he did, we'd have been ok....

    But he didn't stop there, he pulls out a wallet, flips it open, and exposes a small gold badge.....

    I ask him "are you a cop?" and he says "what do you think?". I turned on my interior light, pulled my badge case out of my back pocket (I have a separate case for my badge, in case I have to hand over my wallet in some reason the bad guy won't know I'm a cop) and flip it open, holding it up where he can see it. Then I said "that's a nice badge, I got one too, where do you work?".

    I have never seen anyone's eyes get that big before.

    He screams "just don't do it again" and drives off as the light changes. Suffice it to say no my interest is peaked. I follow him for a half mile and he turns off into the apartment complex. I stop at the entrance to see where he's going while I'm talking to 911 on my cell phone. The guy circles back like he going to try to exit, but stops just short of my car. I got out (hand on my weapon, but I didn't draw) and ordered him to turn the vehicle off and to let em see his hands, which he did. He says "hey be cool officer, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding". So I ask him if he's a cop and he says "No". Then I tell him we're going to sit right here and wait for the local PD to arrive.

    The he starts apologizing over and over and asks if we can just forget it and go our separate ways. Just then 2 city police units arrive and I let em know the scoop.

    Turns out the dude is an unarmed Security Guard for some mom and pop outfit I've never heard of. The Badge he flashed said "Security Enforcement Agent"...... The responding officer asked my if he ever said words to the affect of "I am a police officer" or if he took any action that would deprive me of my rights\. I knew where h was going with all that, and I agreed, the guys actions fell just short of Impersonating a Peace Officer.

    The officer set the guy straight on the legality of my passing him on that road (meaning, all of this was over nothing, if the guy knew anything about the law he would have known my pass was legal) and informed him that his security company (the officer knows the owners of the company BTW) would be informed of his actions.
    As I was leaving the guy apologizes again, to which I simply reply "save you apologies and THINK next time, because next time it could be some gang banger who won't care if you're a cop or not....and take the (expletive) badge out of your wallet, there is rarely any need for someone in security to do that".

    And a fun time was had by all......
    Last edited by Black Caesar; 05-14-2007, 03:34 AM.
    ~Black Caesar~
    Corbier's Commandos

    " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

  • #2
    Just a similar story . but I WAS NOT trying to do anything to imply i was a cop. I used to cary a Fire department badge in my wallet ( I am a Full time firefigter). I got pulled over by high way patrol one time and he asked for my license. I opened my wallet and gave him my drivers license ( I didnt make an effort to show him my badge ). He saw the badge and my military ID and was like are you trying to impersonate a cop. I explained to him I was a Firefighter and worked security (which is why my uniforms are in the car). I even showed him the badge at this time so he could see that it said firefighter USAF on it and no where did it say police or anything of the sort. He got all mad and walked back to his car wrote my ticket and THREW the ticket book in my car and had me sign the ticket then he left . Very unprofessional of him. Well i no longer carry my badge as i wanted to slim down my wallet. I now just keep my fire badge on a belt clip in my glove box in case I need to use it at an accident or something to identify my self as a firefighter.
    Last edited by Arff312; 05-14-2007, 09:01 AM.
    Robert
    Here endith the lesson

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    • #3
      Even funnier is that the "Security Enforcement Officer" badge is about 12 bucks from Galls. 20 bucks says that it was just stuck in his wallet and not an actual badge wallet (those cost money.)

      If you have need of a badge wallet, your company will issue one. I know of several people here who have generic badges that say "Security" on them, and carry them off-duty. I have no idea why, since their state law requires that you be ON DUTY AND IN UNIFORM for an armed permit to work, unless you are under special circumstances, in which case, your employer will issue credentials.

      9 times out of 10, you do not need a badge wallet unless you perform services out of uniform. If you perform services in uniform, all you are doing is trying very hard to get killed or arrested.

      I have, for when I do technical security services, a badge in a wallet. I wear it with a suit, or a polo shirt, and it is one of the "value added services" in that clients know that when I arrive, I have credentials that positively say who I am, and rather expensive ones at that.

      I have no need to carry these credentials when not on a service call, and they are in a separate ID case so that they can be lost immediately if something bad happens. Carrying your personal ID with your badge, of any type, is a good way to get shot if the bad guy starts pulling wallets looking for people with guns.
      Some Kind of Commando Leader

      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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      • #4
        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
        Even funnier is that the "Security Enforcement Officer" badge is about 12 bucks from Galls. 20 bucks says that it was just stuck in his wallet and not an actual badge wallet (those cost money.)

        If you have need of a badge wallet, your company will issue one. I know of several people here who have generic badges that say "Security" on them, and carry them off-duty. I have no idea why, since their state law requires that you be ON DUTY AND IN UNIFORM for an armed permit to work, unless you are under special circumstances, in which case, your employer will issue credentials.

        9 times out of 10, you do not need a badge wallet unless you perform services out of uniform. If you perform services in uniform, all you are doing is trying very hard to get killed or arrested.

        I have, for when I do technical security services, a badge in a wallet. I wear it with a suit, or a polo shirt, and it is one of the "value added services" in that clients know that when I arrive, I have credentials that positively say who I am, and rather expensive ones at that.

        I have no need to carry these credentials when not on a service call, and they are in a separate ID case so that they can be lost immediately if something bad happens. Carrying your personal ID with your badge, of any type, is a good way to get shot if the bad guy starts pulling wallets looking for people with guns.
        I know, a guy that has his POV decked out with dash lights, radio console, etc. One day he pulls out his wallet, which actually was a "badge" wallet. First thing came to mind was why the hell do you need a badge wallet. As a security officer? I'm like can we say super squirrel? People wonder why most police officers hate security. I'm like man, I hope you don't get pulled over and have that out.

        There has been two security officers arrested in Maryland, last year for inpersonating. Their crown vics were owned by the company, where they were employed. The one guy worked security at Giant Food, carried a Sig Sauer (with no permit). He was arrested at Giant Food, and ALL of his neighbors thought he was a police officer.
        "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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        • #5
          I disagree that the SO's actions "fell short" of impersonating a police officer when he flashed the badge, but even more so when he answered BC's direct question as to whether he was a cop with "What do you think?". This was his "point of no escape" from the crime, in my opinion. He knew very well what impression he was trying to give, and showed his intention to allow a citizen to mistakenly believe that he was a cop when he had the opportunity to correct that mistaken belief.

          Usually, the standard is what would cause a "reasonable person to believe" that a person is a cop, and this SO's actions crossed that line by some considerable margin.

          What the responding police officers should have considered was: What if the citizen involved had not been BC, but some little old lady or other ordinary layman who was "nonexpert" in such matters? What would they have believed about this badge and about that response? Of course, they would have believed he was a cop.

          I'd have arrested this SO(B) five ways from Sunday.
          Last edited by SecTrainer; 05-14-2007, 12:15 PM.
          "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

          "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

          "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

          "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

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          • #6
            Obviously the presence of an actual crime is dependent upon what elements the state statute requires to be present for the crime to have been committed.

            Personally I think the guy wanted to lure another into believing he was more than he was for whatever reason.

            However, it might be argued that because he showed his badge, which presumably stated "security" he disclosed his true and correct title and thus, did not hold himself out to be a sworn peace officer because he did not actually say "yes" when asked if he was a cop, and sometimes that's the element state statutes require..an clear affirmative statement of one being a cop when they are not.

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            • #7
              Here is a funny wanna-be story (not really):

              The establishment I work for (a State college) had the infinite wisdom to hire a contract security guard whose job was to patrol the exterior of the building after midnight. Before the college got slammed by the union for contracting out, I used to make it a point to talk with some of these contract guards in order to find out what they’re all about. One guard used to show up in a crown vic decked out with lights, a generic security logo on the door, scanners, and antennas on the roof. I ran this guy’s name and found out that he had several pages of activity that included traffic and criminal. In addition, he had no security guard license. The company was advised of this and eventually the State.

              Another guard was assigned to the site and I talked with him for some time. He was wearing what appeared to be a Sheriff T-shirt under his coat. He told me that he was a reserve deputy in a county that encompassed an area where I used to work L.E. I quizzed him on people that worked there and the area. He answered the questions fairly well, but it was hard to verify some answers considering I had not been there in around 6 years. It turns out, he was a criminal and never a deputy. He must have learned the trade from listening to the scanner and being on the wrong side of the fence. His employer was advised.

              Then there were these other guys who came on duty as I was about to leave. I found an intoxicated individual urinating on the property with a purse around his neck and asked him to produce some i.d. He proceeded to hand me library cards, etc. and laugh. I took him into custody and one of the idiot contract guys (with the States 12 hours of classroom training) attempted to jump in. I told him to back off and observe. He was overzealous and a possible liability if the subject got hurt.

              If you are a security guard with no law enforcement authority, you have no business carrying a badge off duty! In addition, it would be wise not to wear your uniform shirt to work (many places prohibit this) to avoid confusion that can get yourself hurt.
              Last edited by Investigation; 05-14-2007, 04:19 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Christopherstjo
                Obviously the presence of an actual crime is dependent upon what elements the state statute requires to be present for the crime to have been committed.

                Personally I think the guy wanted to lure another into believing he was more than he was for whatever reason.

                However, it might be argued that because he showed his badge, which presumably stated "security" he disclosed his true and correct title and thus, did not hold himself out to be a sworn peace officer because he did not actually say "yes" when asked if he was a cop, and sometimes that's the element state statutes require..an clear affirmative statement of one being a cop when they are not.
                I am not familiar with any "impersonation" laws that require "a clear affirmative statement". Impersonation can be carried out by knowingly performing any act that would reasonably cause another to believe you are acting in an official capacity, or that would induce another to obey the orders of someone in such a capacity (see MRS 575.120, for instance).

                It is well known that such belief in false authority can be induced by many means other than "affirmative statements", including merely the unauthorized wearing of a particular uniform, for instance. The long and the short of it is that if you do anything that would cause a reasonable person to believe that you're a policeman (or a nurse, a doctor, whatever), with the intent of inducing that person to do anything they would not otherwise do (such as obey your "lawful" orders), you've committed impersonation.

                In fact, this principle runs throughout all the forms of false impersonation (e.g., presenting false identification to a police officer, presenting fake ID that misrepresents your age, etc.). You would be (and people have been charged with) falsely impersonating a doctor if you merely put on a white coat, sat down at the nursing station and entered an order into a patient's chart. It would not be necessary for you to say "Hi everybody, look! I are a doctor!". In busy hospitals with large medical staffs, this is a recurring problem - and the charge is impersonating a licensed physician, or practicing medicine without a license, when it happens.

                Try running around town with flashing red/blue lights on your POV and telling the cops you "didn't make an affirmative statement". Three teenagers in North Carolina, for instance, were charged specifically with impersonation when they merely used a blue light to pull motorists over. They then robbed the motorists immediately, without any further "affirmative statement" or pretense to being the police. Flashing the blue light constituted the sole act of impersonation (of course, they were charged with robbery and some weaopns charges also).

                It also doesn't happen to matter whether the person being induced to believe in your false status actually obeys your command/request, etc., either. It comes down to two things, albeit stated in different ways, in all impersonation laws that I know of (and I just checked 10 different states):

                1. An individual knowingly making a false representation, whether by word or deed, regarding his official status...
                2. ...with the intent of inducing another to perform (or to refrain from performing) some act on the basis of their reasonable belief in such false representation of status.

                Since this security individual had no legitimate reason for flashing a badge at all (and the word "security" would not have been visible to anyone under the circumstances cited anyway), issued "police orders" with the clear intent to cause compliance/obedience to such orders, and furthermore failed to deny that he was a police officer when asked directly, he did commit the crime of impersonation with sufficient completion of the usual elements to justify charging him and bringing him before a magistrate.

                ...and he himself knew that he was liable to such arrest (guilty knowledge), as shown by his further comments (apology, request to "forget the whole thing", etc., etc.). He should have been arrested, and I believe many cops would have arrested him.
                Last edited by SecTrainer; 05-14-2007, 05:18 PM.
                "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

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                • #9
                  If he wasn't eating a donut, he wasn't impersonating a cop.
                  Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mr. Security
                    If he wasn't eating a donut, he wasn't impersonating a cop.
                    Eh, and all this time, I been thinking they switched to bagels.
                    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mr. Security
                      If he wasn't eating a donut, he wasn't impersonating a cop.
                      Well, he wasn't napping either, so he couldn't have been security. Guess he must have been a health inspector.
                      "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                      "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                      "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                      "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Funny wanna-be story

                        I used to work with a guy who worked mall security with me at a previous location. This guy was the epitome of "super squirrel." He carried *6* pairs of hinged cuffs on his duty belt (3 double cases . . . the company issued one single case and most of us carried at most 2 pairs of standard cuffs) This guy drove a beat up Toyota Tercel (black body with white doors so he wouldn't get busted for impersonating) with an amber dome light that plugged into the cigarrette outlet. On his way home one night, he pulled over on the freeway (dressed in black BDUs and jump boots), and offered a CHP Officer (California Highway Patrol) officer backup on a felony stop, advising them that he was security and was armed. They didn't take too kindly to that and later found out that he didn't have any firearm permit whatsoever and the gun was registered to his uncle. Word got to my security director and in pretty short order he found himself out of a job . . .

                        As they say, a bad apple ruin the bunch. Thank the people like these that give us all bad names.
                        The law is reason free from passion." -- Aristotle

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                        • #13
                          How many people here drive home in uniform? I always cover up my uniform and badge when I stop for some fast food. You never know if some cook has it out for cops.
                          Police Officer

                          Experience: Bouncer, EMT, Theme Park Security, Money Transport, Armed Guard

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dannyr619
                            How many people here drive home in uniform? I always cover up my uniform and badge when I stop for some fast food. You never know if some cook has it out for cops.
                            I do, sometimes depending on what, I am doing. If I decide to make a food stop, i'll hit the drive-thru. Or go to a "cop" friendly place. I've also ordered delivery when, I got off work, and hauling arse home before they get there. LOL
                            "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Investigation

                              Did that contract company not conduct background checks on it's employees? Wow!

                              Originally posted by alamedaad
                              He carried *6* pairs of hinged cuffs on his duty belt (3 double cases . . . the company issued one single case and most of us carried at most 2 pairs of standard cuffs)
                              No doubt this guy had some issues, but what's the significance of hinged cuffs vs. standard linked cuffs? I carry one hinged and two linked, personally. I don't have a preference; it's what my employer issued to me.

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