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  • Advice Needed

    Hey , After a long discussion with my my employer will not allow me to carry Baton/Cuffs , there are several sites where you can but i will get more hours on sites where they are not allowed to be carried as the owners as scared of the legal reprecussions etc. So i currently carry on my Nylon Bianchi Accumold belt - DyeWitness (I will probably never use it but it will be a great deterrent) , Surefire 2P , Handcuff pouch with mini first aid kit and latex gloves etc in it.

    Now since i really dont have any major weapons besides the spray im thinking about getting another torch. The Surefire is great in quality but it is extremely small im thinking of getting something like the streamlight ultrastinger....what do you guys think about that torch?

    Im mainly looking for a real long and big one that can be used as a modified weapon.

  • #2
    Originally posted by joecolerulz
    Im mainly looking for a real long and big one that can be used as a modified weapon.
    If they told you no to a baton, then why get a flashlight that can be used as an impact weapon? You are only asking to get yourself and your employer in a load of trouble. If you are so concerned about this, why not find another employer or site that is equipped with baton/OC?
    "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

    Comment


    • #3
      He's in Australia. No site is going to be equipped with OC, its illegal for their citizens to possess it, only the Crown may.

      As to the buying an impact weapon when you have a flashlight, that's the first thing the police and the company will notice. "Why does this bloke have two torches? Especially after he struck someone with the big one."
      Some Kind of Commando Leader

      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by davis002
        If they told you no to a baton, then why get a flashlight that can be used as an impact weapon? You are only asking to get yourself and your employer in a load of trouble. If you are so concerned about this, why not find another employer or site that is equipped with baton/OC?
        Agreed - in fact, flashlights can be more dangerous than batons due to their sharp edges and the distribution of their weight. This is why a number of manufacturers specifically state the flashlight is not to be used for that purpose - i.e., in order to limit their own liability and turn it into an "unauthorized use" situation for you, which ain't good. Plus, you'd have the site-specific instructions working against you, which would at least partially immunize your company.

        If you feel that the risk profile of this site is such that being completely unarmed presents unacceptable safety issues for you, consider making some sort of a change. What good are "more hours" to someone who's in the hospital, off on disability, fired (if you violate the post orders)...or worse?

        I have a thread elsewhere suggesting that job safety is precisely the area of regulation on which we should attack inadequate training and inadequate arming of security officers. This sounds like a perfect example. The trump card cannot be the "client's fear of liability", and it won't be if we (WE) start to make the client liable for endangering officers by imposing what amount to inappropriately dangerous work conditions. The trump card as to whether officers should be armed or not MUST be the risk profile of the security venue...period. Far too many officers who should be trained up and armed aren't, and in my view they're just being hung out to dry. We wouldn't tolerate this with any other type of employee.
        Last edited by SecTrainer; 05-10-2007, 10:20 AM.
        "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

        "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

        "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

        "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

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        • #5
          Well then iLL drop the surefire and just use the big torch. If i am involved in physical confrontation i will use it in self defence , i dont know about you fellas but ive been attacked numerous times in security mainly while doing licensed premises eg pubs/clubs......its not a pleasant feeling.

          The police will be fine with me using the torch in self defence as ive brought it as and to use as a torch.....but i felt i was in danger and defended myself with anything near me/on me which in this case was a torch.

          Carrying a big torch and using it for self defence is fine what are some of your recomendations?

          Comment


          • #6
            "Weapons of opportunity" don't always get you off the hook. Be carefull...
            Apparently a HUGE cop wannabe...

            Comment


            • #7
              You can use a strong flashlight to make your presence known and to give the bad guys a fair and advanced warning to fight, or flee.
              I did that all the time, and my job was never hard, no matter where I was posted.
              You can even use a strong flashlight to temporarlily blind someone (if you must) to give yourself a chance to run and call police if things really get bad.
              But not as a weapon.
              That is a no-no.

              If you ever have to use one in a fight, then something definitely went seriously wrong.

              If you even might think it might come to that at your current security jobsite, it's time for a transfer, or a job change.
              There are always plenty of good paying security jobs at other places out there, where it is unlikely that it would come to that.
              Observe and report what you saw with a good flashlight.
              Bedtime at sunrise

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by 3rd_shift
                You can use a strong flashlight to make your presence known and to give the bad guys a fair and advanced warning to fight, or flee.
                I did that all the time, and my job was never hard, no matter where I was posted.
                You can even use a strong flashlight to temporarlily blind someone (if you must) to give yourself a chance to run and call police if things really get bad.
                But not as a weapon.
                That is a no-no.

                If you ever have to use one in a fight, then something definitely went seriously wrong.

                If you even might think it might come to that at your current security jobsite, it's time for a transfer, or a job change.
                There are always plenty of good paying security jobs at other places out there, where it is unlikely that it would come to that.
                Incorrect. Use of force does allow for weapons of opputunity if all else fails prior to firearm. I think it falls in with impact weapons. But it may be different where you are from.
                Robert
                Here endith the lesson

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by 3rd_shift
                  You can use a strong flashlight to make your presence known and to give the bad guys a fair and advanced warning to fight, or flee.
                  I did that all the time, and my job was never hard, no matter where I was posted.
                  You can even use a strong flashlight to temporarlily blind someone (if you must) to give yourself a chance to run and call police if things really get bad.
                  But not as a weapon.
                  That is a no-no.

                  If you ever have to use one in a fight, then something definitely went seriously wrong.

                  If you even might think it might come to that at your current security jobsite, it's time for a transfer, or a job change.
                  There are always plenty of good paying security jobs at other places out there, where it is unlikely that it would come to that.
                  The name of the game is survival. If you are in a situation that you cannot get out of and you are forced to defend your life, anything you can use at your disposal to save yourself should be used. Obviously, it must be consistant with the amount of forced used against you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    thanks for the replies guys. I will get another big torch later on what are your suggestions for a really strong and solid one?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      When I was in LE I used a Kel-Lite. I know MAGLITE is now popular.
                      Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                      Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                      Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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                      • #12
                        I would say if you are going to use a flashlight as self defense because you are not allowed any weaponry, keep the flashlight stock. Do not add any of that goofy stuff they have out there such as the side handle (like that on a PR-24) or the "crown" that you can get on the top of the light, etc... as soon as you start adding that kind of stuff to your flashlight it will be clearly visible that you did not use the light as a "weapon of opportunity" but rather you had the light set up to be used as weaponry in the first place.
                        "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                        "The Curve" 1998

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Security Consultant View Post
                          When I was in LE I used a Kel-Lite. I know MAGLITE is now popular.
                          The trusty Kel-Lite, now you're aging yourself. In the 70's using the flashlight as an impact weapon was part of the police academy defensive tactics training.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by joecolerulz View Post
                            thanks for the replies guys. I will get another big torch later on what are your suggestions for a really strong and solid one?

                            A 4-6 c cell size Maglite ought to do it.
                            And yes, leave it stock without any gougers, or other weaponlike modifications added.

                            Tennis racket grip material wrapped around it might be ok though, so you don't drop it while doing your rounds.
                            Makes it harder for one to take it away from you too.

                            If the bad guys know how to use your weapons better than you do, you may only be increasing the risks to you from bringing such stuff there.
                            Try to take a good baton course, or go for the whole armed guard training course if it is available.
                            Once you do that, there may be better paying places where you will be allowed to carry the "good stuff".

                            Stay safe.
                            Observe and report what you saw with a good flashlight.
                            Bedtime at sunrise

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Options

                              One of my favorites is a pair of tack gloves I have. In one of the glove fingers, I have a roll of triple taped nickels. I tightly grasp the wrist end of
                              the glove with the roll of nickels in the finger. It makes a wicked horse-neck.

                              Also I can put the glove on and wedge the roll of nickels against the "heel"
                              of my hand, thrusting out quick and hard with the arm gives a real wake up
                              call to the attacker. I never put it against the knukles or bones of the top of
                              the hand as this will only break your hand on impact.

                              The nice option with this is, You can simply take the roll of nickels out and
                              toss them down the nearest sewer drain. Who's to say how that rowdy thug
                              sustained that broken nose or lump on his head?

                              Old men have to fight dirty.

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