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Another Mall Shooting (KCMO)!!

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  • #16
    Originally posted by davis002
    Who said that on KCTV?... I just watched the video coverage, and the police spokesman refused to release any details in regards to who actually shot him. I am in no way saying I don't beleive you, I am just trying to sort it all out.
    As I cited in my post... according to Channel 5 news, herein KCMO (on their 10pm broadcast) they reported that it was mall security officers who shot and killed the suspect. Again, this report was given during their 10pm broadcast; well after the incident occurred.

    What remains in question is whether the mall security were that of off duty police acting in the capacity of security or that of actual security officers because Channel 5 news has not been clear on this point; some reporters state it was security officers and some are now claiming it was off an duty police officer (who was working as security officer).

    Its' the media - what do you expect.
    Last edited by Christopherstjo; 04-30-2007, 08:05 AM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by CorpSec
      4 dead total, the person that shot the bad guy to death was a police officer working off duty as security. So, if you say the police shot the suspect, I guess you would be right, and if you said that mall security shot the suspect, that would technically be correct as well.
      Actually, as I posted above, our local news (Channel 5) has not been clear in whether it was actually security officers or that of off duty "police officers" that shot and killed the suspect while operating in the capacity of a security officer. And there were only two people killed at the mall, the other(s) were killed in two other separate (but related) incidents involving the same suspect.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Black Caesar
        #1. Does any mall have armed in house or contract private security? I've never ever seen that around these parts, all the mall security I see or know of is unarmed.
        Yes, in KCMO there are some security officers who work malls and are armed. The Crown Center is one such mall that provides armed security officers. I believe the Banaster Mall might be another.

        Originally posted by Black Caesar
        #2. What does it matter who shot the guy? Whether he was a Police Officer or Security Officer doesn't matter to me one bit.
        Well for one, because security officers are often viewed as being nothing more than "window dressing" and having no value. Hence, if it was, in fact, actual security officers who shot the suspect then it takes a positive step forward in defeating such erroneous views and beliefs about security officers.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Christopherstjo
          As I cited in my post... according to Channel 5 news, herein KCMO (on their 10pm broadcast) they reported that it was mall security officers who shot and killed the suspect. Again, this report was given during their 10pm broadcast; well after the incident occurred.
          I watched the video broadcasts on kctv.com, and they said they were unsure if it was the police or security that neutralized the suspect. I guess it doesn't really matter either way, I was just curious. Regardless, we will learn more exact details in the next day or two.

          One thing is for certain... It was a bad day in Kansas City.
          "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

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          • #20
            Originally posted by davis002
            One thing is for certain... It was a bad day in Kansas City.
            That's an understatment...

            We orginally thought the mall suspect was among those who engaged in four armed robberies at or around the same time the mall shooting took place. We received radio communicaitons about the mall shooting because of this belief and the fact that all this (including the mall shooting) took place in one of the districts we patrol and were involved in one of the four armed robberies committed.

            On top of all this, several k through 12 schools received bomb threats yesterday as well.
            Last edited by Christopherstjo; 04-30-2007, 08:06 AM.

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            • #21
              KCPD Statement:

              "Officers were called Sunday, April 29th, at about 149 pm to the 3700 block of East 93rd street to check the welfare of an elderly woman. When the officers arrived, they discovered a dead woman inside the home. Officers were also told the woman's car was missing. The officers put out a description of the woman's car.

              At about 311 pm, an officer on patrol saw the vehicle that was reported missing from the woman's home. The officer stopped the car at 1311 Bannister road. When he stopped the car, the driver began shooting at the officer. The officer returned fire but was struck in the arm by one of the gunman's shots. The officer put out a description of the vehicle to officers. It is unknown if any of the officer's shots struck the man. He was transported to an area hospital for treatment. He was treated and released. The officer is 44 years old and has been with the department since January 1992.

              At about 327 pm, we received a call regarding an outside disturbance with shots fired at the Ward Parkway mall, 8600 Ward Parkway. While on the way to the call, the officers received information that a man was inside the mall with a long gun. Officers from Kansas City and Leawood, along with security from the mall, confronted the man inside the common area of the mall. During this confrontation, the man was shot to death by the officers. It is believed the dead man is the one who shot the officer on Bannister road. His vehicle was found in the parking lot. Additionally, two people were found shot to death on each side of the vehicle the man was driving.
              "
              Last edited by davis002; 04-30-2007, 08:37 AM.
              "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

              Comment


              • #22
                AP VIDEO: Gunman was neighbor of first victim

                Three dead in Ward Parkway Center shooting spree



                Police did not release a detailed description of the shooter but witnesses said he appeared to be a white man in his 50s.

                Police have no answers for why the gunman headed for the shopping center.

                “It appears he came to the mall to shoot people,” police spokesman Tony Sanders said. “It was mass chaos on a Sunday afternoon, but it could have been a much worse situation. It’s a mall in Middle America on Sunday afternoon…it’s crowded.”
                Last edited by davis002; 04-30-2007, 08:53 AM.
                "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

                Comment


                • #23
                  VIDEO: Ward Parkway Press Conference - April 30, 2007

                  Home of Ward Parkway Gunman Booby Trapped



                  "Police Chief James Corwin said in a press conference Monday that the Ward Parkway Gunman's house was booby-trapped.

                  Corwin said a "self-made bomb" was rigged to the home, and officers had yet to enter it.

                  .....

                  The officer was able to fire back and injure Logsdon, who then went to the Ward Parkway Mall, where he killed two people in the parking lot before entering the Target store and discharging 31 additional rounds, according to preliminary investigation results.

                  Corwin said a police officer then entered the store with a shotgun, where investigators said that he fired two shots at Logsdon, killing him.

                  "His training is to neutralize that shooter," Corwin said. It was that training, he said, that saved lives.

                  The investigation revealed that Logsdon, who police said was at one time a security guard at Target, planned to "wreak havoc" at the shopping center."
                  "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Turns out it was in fact a KCMO Police Officer , and not a Mall Security Officer, that entered the mall and neutralized the gunman with 2 rounds from a shotgun.

                    The gunman was previously a Security Officer at the Target store, but he was turned down for a private security license due to outstanding warrants and subsuquently let go.
                    Last edited by davis002; 04-30-2007, 04:51 PM.
                    "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by davis002
                      The investigation revealed that Logsdon, who police said was at one time a security guard at Target..."[/I]
                      Oh, outstanding. Here come more feel-good laws.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by BHR Lawson
                        Because this is a security forum, and it is probably interesting to the members here if this was actually a security guard rather than the common story of "shooter at -----, police arrive at -----, police shoot shooter. Security is unheard from." Had this been a contract or in-house security officer, that would be good ammo for someone's arsenal if they wanted to try to arm their mall's security.
                        --
                        Originally posted by Christopherstjo
                        Well for one, because security officers are often viewed as being nothing more than "window dressing" and having no value. Hence, if it was, in fact, actual security officers who shot the suspect then it takes a positive step forward in defeating such erroneous views and beliefs about security officers.
                        I understand what both of you are saying, but this goes back to something I mentioned weeks ago:

                        If the private security industry is ever going to shake off that "older but awkward slightly retarded brother of Public Law Enforcement" Image, it has to start with you guys, and part of that is understanding that:

                        -People are going NOT going to respect you no matter what you do, mainly because of their own ignorance.

                        And

                        -It don't mean nothin.

                        Once I was talking to a Dallas Police Officer, and the issue came up about being Campus Police. He said "I respect you guys a lot, but I could never do it, people think you guys are security, not real police".

                        To which I replied (take not fellas, this is one of my mantras) "I know what I am, the State of Texas knows what I am and GOD knows what I am, everyone else is irrelevant".

                        So no one else needs to recognize the job we are doing, we didn't get into this work for Glory, we do it because it needs doing.

                        In this particular case, whats important is the good guys (police, security, boy scouts whatever) won and the bad guy is dead. Period.
                        ~Black Caesar~
                        Corbier's Commandos

                        " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Chris your description of KCMO was on target. The old retired network had some chatter from those assigned to KCMO. Don't know how accurate this is but it tracks with your remarks Chris, off duty police officers are strongly reminded to wear bullet resistant vests when off duty.
                          I now see why you are so desperately trying to get things off dead center and moving so as to benefit the security profession and society in general.
                          Thinking out loud, do you think this and the Utah incidents will help your cause; or like Wil opined, just more "feel good" laws, rules and regulations?
                          Enjoy the day,
                          Bill
                          Last edited by Bill Warnock; 04-30-2007, 05:57 PM. Reason: Missing words

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by davis002
                            The officer was able to fire back and injure Logsdon, who then went to the Ward Parkway Mall, where he killed two people in the parking lot before entering the Target store and discharging 31 additional rounds, according to preliminary investigation results.
                            Can you link to this part of the report?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Black Caesar
                              --


                              I understand what both of you are saying, but this goes back to something I mentioned weeks ago:

                              If the private security industry is ever going to shake off that "older but awkward slightly retarded brother of Public Law Enforcement" Image, it has to start with you guys, and part of that is understanding that:

                              -People are going NOT going to respect you no matter what you do, mainly because of their own ignorance.

                              And

                              -It don't mean nothin.

                              Once I was talking to a Dallas Police Officer, and the issue came up about being Campus Police. He said "I respect you guys a lot, but I could never do it, people think you guys are security, not real police".

                              To which I replied (take not fellas, this is one of my mantras) "I know what I am, the State of Texas knows what I am and GOD knows what I am, everyone else is irrelevant".

                              So no one else needs to recognize the job we are doing, we didn't get into this work for Glory, we do it because it needs doing.

                              In this particular case, whats important is the good guys (police, security, boy scouts whatever) won and the bad guy is dead. Period.
                              "Don't care what you call me so long as you obey my lawful orders. "
                              Some Kind of Commando Leader

                              "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by wilrobnson
                                Oh, outstanding. Here come more feel-good laws.
                                I hope not, but I wouldn't mind some laws raising the bar for entry into the field, including stricter backgrounding and psychological testing, as well as polygraph. The last, especially, ain't likely to happen due to $$$.

                                We see some pockets (most notably in companies heavily engaged in federal security contracts, such as SAIC) where the standards are high, but certainly we could stand to tighten up the formation when it comes to checking folks out. Most adults don't suddenly lapse into mental illness, and there is almost always some historical evidence if you're looking for it.
                                "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                                "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                                "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                                "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

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