News from FOPSO... No Lodge Fees.

[N. A. Corbier]

Disclaimer: I am just the messenger, this time. Don't shoot me.

Remember when I posted that FOPSO had a 200 dollar application fee? No more. Kevin Jordan, the person in charge of the organization, has announced that the fees for applying have been dropped.

Message as posted on FOPSO's forums (Login Required):

Everyone,

There has been alot of talk on this and other sites, making false statements that the Grand Lodge fees were nothing more than me trying to "line my pockets"! Angry

Nothing can be further from the truth!

Therefore effective immediately, all fees to the Grand Lodge are waived in order to form a local.

Local groups are encouraged to organize and to remain "non-union" as scripted in the by-laws of FOPSO. FOPSO's intention to aid the officers from the post up but not to become a bargaining force for labor union activities per se.

Just to clarify the request for the FEE was created because, something given free is often taken for granted! The fee was made to have a real investment into the organization that was substantial enough to keep you from walking away, yet low enough that 5 members of a local could pay for their president to be a member of the national lodge at $40 each.
I NEVER had any intentions of using the money personally, just as I had put a stop to fees in NAPSOA after taking over the group as President, all expenses came from mine or Nathan's pocket.
Now we have achieved free hosting because of Nathan's efforts and it is greatly appreciated.

Nathan and I had many discussions on this matter and he can attest that the money was going to be donated to a charity like Jerry Lewis MDA, or something.
The recognition for the donation was also a way of putting the name FOPSO in a nationally recognized "event" that would show that S/Os are giving and caring and not just warm-bodies!
I don't want your money for myself, I make enough to get by and don't need to take from you to accomplish what is set forth here.

So I now challenge ALL of you, form locals, adopt the bylaws, principles and ideals of FOPSO and run with it in a way that benefits everyone that wears the uniform and risks themselves in this typically "thankless" profession.

I will watch and read of your progress; and pray that the seeds that have been sown can grow!

[Christopherstjo]

Kevin

I will relay this infomation to those here, in KCMO, who were interested and see what they have to say. I assume that the 10% annual collection of all membership dues still applies?

However, as I expressed in my e-mail to you, their concern was sending the money without having anyway to contact you directly beyond that of the Internet.

In a day and age where it is common for money scams to be run, it is both reasonable and logical for people to be cautious when asked to send money to someone they can only contact by the Internet.

I am a very strong supporter and avocator that security officers must have some kind of organization, perhaps, like the FOPSO, yet, as I have said, I am not the only one here, in KCMO making the decisions in what direction we will pursue.

If they are interested in revisiting this project idea, I will let you know, yet, I am confident that they will still want some way to contact you directly. This is both reasonable and logical and as such, remains the million dollar question.

[SecTrainer]

No lodge fees, eh? That's excellent news!

It's always better when things are priced at what they're really worth, and "zero" is exactly the value of a "FOPSO lodge" - to this point, at least. If and when that ever changes, the subject of fees can always be revisited.

Readers might recall that I advised this organization to start locally, do some real work to prove its value on a local level and then talk about "going national" when there's something of substance to take on the road, and even provided suggestions about useful things it could do locally to prove that the concept has value. This obsession with "going national" is way, way premature.

I stick to my advice.

[Christopherstjo]

Readers might recall that I advised this organization.

Ya, ya, ya... you advise everyone on everything (j/k)

I believe the FOPSO, unto itself, has merit and I support anyone who has ambitions in life and is willing to work to acheive such.

Nothwithstanding this, however, those here remain gravely aprehensious about getting involved in an organization where its' promoter does not wish to disclose a way to contact him directly, outside the Internet.

[GCMC Security]

No lodge fees, eh? That's excellent news!

It's always better when things are priced at what they're really worth, and "zero" is exactly the value of a "FOPSO lodge" - to this point, at least. If and when that ever changes, the subject of fees can always be revisited.

Readers might recall that I advised this organization to start locally, do some real work to prove its value on a local level and then talk about "going national" when there's something of substance to take on the road, and even provided suggestions about useful things it could do locally to prove that the concept has value. This obsession with "going national" is way, way premature.

I stick to my advice.

Sec Believe it or not we have taken your advice. We are looking at a local lodge here in FL and cooridinating our efforts with people. But our first priority here are our local officers.

[N. A. Corbier]

Ya, ya, ya... you advise everyone on everything (j/k)

I believe the FOPSO, unto itself, has merit and I support anyone who has ambitions in life and is willing to work to acheive such.

Nothwithstanding this, however, those here remain gravely aprehensious about getting involved in an organization where its' promoter does not wish to disclose a way to contact him directly, outside the Internet.

I have to ask, which promoter are you referring to? Kevin Jordan?

[SecTrainer]

I believe the FOPSO, unto itself, has merit and I support anyone who has ambitions in life and is willing to work to acheive such.

My post made no assumptions about the potential value of FOPSO, but only with how such value (and growth) can best be realized, which is, in my opinion, to demonstrate the concept locally first.

I believe you, of all people, should be familiar with this concept as it is exactly on-point with your DIVE team and the need to both demonstrate its merits and identify its weaknesses at a local level first.

Organizations like this almost always start small and grow by virtue of their proven value at each level - locally, regionally and then nationally. It is very unusual for them to spring full-grown out of nothing.

...and, as another poster has already said, that is what the organization has decided to do, apparently, and with that new information I have new reason to hope that the organization will succeed. If so, no one will be happier than I.

[SecTrainer]

Sec Believe it or not we have taken your advice. We are looking at a local lodge here in FL and cooridinating our efforts with people. But our first priority here are our local officers.

That's very good news. I think the organization will benefit enormously from taking this stepwise approach. Once even a few practical real benefits can be demonstrated, there will be natural impetus/demand for the creation of other lodges.

[Christopherstjo]

I have to ask, which promoter are you referring to? Kevin Jordan?

While the answer to your question is plainly evident in paragraph 2 of my first post to this thread...I am referring to Kevin Jorden.

Those of us here, in KCMO, are committed to starting some kind of organization that serves the needs and voices of security officers and while we have strongly favored doing so under the FOPSO banner, Kevin's continued refusal to disclose a manner to contact him directly outside the Internet world raises serious questions of the FOPSO and Kevin's credibility and deters us from seeing the FOPSO and Kevin as being trustworthy.

Like it or not, when trying to branch out into a national existence, the FOPSO is wholly dependent upon other states creating a lodge under the FOPSO banner, in order to succeed. These individual lodges effectively become the customers of the Grand Lodge, especially when there is an exchange of money existing such as the 10% collection of the annual membership dues from each individual lodge.

Therefore, if Kevin wants his vision to come to life then he must be mindful that he has the burden to make himself accessable outside the Internet world, yet, if he will not then he should not be surprised when others question his and the FOPSO credibility because of the overt secrecy being imposed.

The Internet is cramed full of people trying to scam money from others under fraudulent pretences, as I shared with Kevin in my e-mail just before he decided to waive the $200.00 application fee.

However, merely doing away with the $200.00 fee does not mean that there is no longer a need or obligation to disclose a manner to contact him directly when there is still an exchange of money by virtue of the 10% annual collection of membership fee's as well as having to abide by the FOPSO Articles of Association.

Hence, the longer he refuses to disclose such information, the more right the the general public has to judge him and the FOPSO accordingly, in their credibility and worthiness to be trusted.

The ball is in Kevin's court. . .

[Christopherstjo]

My post made no assumptions about the potential value of FOPSO, but only with how such value (and growth) can best be realized, which is, in my opinion, to demonstrate the concept locally first.

Lighten up - I said I was joking about your giving "advice".... ggggrrrr

[SecTrainer]

Lighten up - I said I was joking about your giving "advice".... ggggrrrr

Should I have said "hee-hee"? I wasn't responding to that portion of your post, as you'll notice if you go back and re-read the quote from your post that I included in my reply. Nor was anything I said in that response "un-light" - it was strictly factual.

I wish you would stop forever yammering about people insulting you, not responding in ways you like, and, most of all, I wish you would read and think about posts objectively before replying to them instead of filtering them through what look to me more and more very much like pathological predispositions. You do this on every forum where you post, seeing "insults", "disrespect", "misunderstanding" absolutely everywhere you look. The only place you never look, it seems, is within yourself, because that is where you'll find most of all this misunderstanding that you believe is coming from others. If anyone needs to lighten up...well, you can finish it.

[Chucky]

This is obviously the result of people not taking their meds prior to posting. If it states on the bottle to take 1 in the am and 1 in the pm then dam it do it.

[N. A. Corbier]

... Did anyone get "Kevin Jordan" out of "anyone" in paragraph two?

[Christopherstjo]

SecTrainer

You were critical of the FOPSO having merit beyond the confines of its' own locality. I disagree with your "assessment" (sic)

You wrote, in your first post to this thread that:

It's always better when things are priced at what they're really worth, and "zero" is exactly the value of a "FOPSO lodge"- to this point, at least. If and when that ever changes, the subject of fees can always be revisited

I don't agree with your assertion and I don't have to agree - so deal with it.

Insofar as your claim that you don't offer insults -

what look to me more and more very much like pathological predispositions

What the heck is that crap? Try looking up the word "insult" or better yet, read the definition below:

abuse: a rude expression intended to offend or hurt;

diss: treat, mention, or speak to rudely;

a deliberately offensive act or something producing the effect of deliberate disrespect;

An insult is a statement or action which affronts or demeans someone.

Insofar as your statement of:

I wish you would read and think about posts objectively before replying to them

No, what you want is for me to agree with everything you say, rather than my having and exercising a different opinion than you do.

[SecTrainer]

Mr. Cross, I finally do believe that you're barking mad, and I do mean that in my opinion you suffer from a very pronounced and nasty form of sociopathy, and may even be hallucinatory. God knows you've hardly yet managed to read a single post on this board and interpret it within a mile of what the writer intended. You claim to be "painfully honest", and yet you either ignore direct questions put to you or you answer them in an extremely tangential fashion (did you think we wouldn't notice?). You make ludicrous claims for yourself that a child of six wouldn't believe. Now, as a "mental health professional", you'll know what all this adds up to, I'm sure.

But you yourself do not "add up". What just doesn't make any sense about you, Cross, is that anyone - ANYONE - who so obviously craves admiration and "respect" as you do, and who claims to be a "criminologist", a "mental health professional", a "consultant", a "nursing school graduate", and also to possess an MA degree and God knows what else, would be doing working as a security guard...which is probably the very job that provides the least of what you so desperately need to scratch your "itch". Very odd, to say the least.

Or, could it be that what you really are, sir, is a garden-variety, pathological liar, plain and simple? No one needs to guess which bet I'd make. Either way, it doesn't matter much because your cheese has definitely slid off your cracker. (No, don't look around for it, Cross - the dog already got it and it's history.)