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security training.. things that bug me....

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Absolutely right. Business logic, when it comes to security and other facilities maintenance operations (why is that lumped in?) is always reactionary. "We're getting sued!" Time to get real protection. "Security costs too much, and doesn't do anything!" Time to hire a warm body company.

    Leave a comment:


  • Curtis Baillie
    replied
    Originally posted by jmaccauley
    Perhaps the companies that can't see the ROI of training have never been on the business end of a vicarious liability lawsuit. It's funny that multi million dollar operations have no clue that the security force that it employs can be the largest liability they have if proved to be incompetent or negligent. usually it's because it's the Human Relations or personnel department tha handles the hiring of security. They are looking at the bottom line without delving into it too deeply. Business professionals need a wake up call from their legal department occasionally. That's why they will throw money at a non-existant problem just to show "good faith," but not invest in protection of the assets. Legal needs to get involved and perhaps that is where the marketing needs to be directed.
    You're exactly right. That's why I get at least one call a month from an attorney looking for litigation support.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by jmaccauley
    Perhaps the companies that can't see the ROI of training have never been on the business end of a vicarious liability lawsuit. It's funny that multi million dollar operations have no clue that the security force that it employs can be the largest liability they have if proved to be incompetent or negligent. usually it's because it's the Human Relations or personnel department tha handles the hiring of security. They are looking at the bottom line without delving into it too deeply. Business professionals need a wake up call from their legal department occasionally. That's why they will throw money at a non-existant problem just to show "good faith," but not invest in protection of the assets. Legal needs to get involved and perhaps that is where the marketing needs to be directed.
    Young man or lady, we are all proud of you! I and others, me for one have been beating this drum for 40+ years, and you would have thought by now all businesses would have signed on. But once again I am naif, many firms still do not have even a rudimentry security plan. I would have thought vicarious liability would have visited their door.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • jmaccauley
    replied
    Perhaps the companies that can't see the ROI of training have never been on the business end of a vicarious liability lawsuit. It's funny that multi million dollar operations have no clue that the security force that it employs can be the largest liability they have if proved to be incompetent or negligent. usually it's because it's the Human Relations or personnel department tha handles the hiring of security. They are looking at the bottom line without delving into it too deeply. Business professionals need a wake up call from their legal department occasionally. That's why they will throw money at a non-existant problem just to show "good faith," but not invest in protection of the assets. Legal needs to get involved and perhaps that is where the marketing needs to be directed.

    Leave a comment:


  • SecTrainer
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    Lear Jets and pretty cars are tangible things that they can own and show off. Professionally trained employees have little more return value (in their eyes) than the idiot they just hired 3 minutes ago after doing a BI consisting of two questions:

    "Have you ever killed a man?"
    "Was it legal?"

    Both will make the same money.
    Maybe it's time for a national "blue flu" day.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Lear Jets and pretty cars are tangible things that they can own and show off. Professionally trained employees have little more return value (in their eyes) than the idiot they just hired 3 minutes ago after doing a BI consisting of two questions:

    "Have you ever killed a man?"
    "Was it legal?"

    Both will make the same money.

    Leave a comment:


  • DMS 525
    replied
    At that one ill fated company I worked for, I proposed and outlined a 20 hour basic training course for all personnel; not a drill and instill "boot camp", but just a very full course of all things every security officer should know. Would have included movies and videos, as well as speeches, reading, and hands on work.

    I might as well have talked to a rock. Money, money, money!!!! Oh, they can have a Lear jet, own big cars, big houses, and so on, but can't pay more than minimum wage and can't better the quality of their service? I told them to quit griping to me whenever some moron guard messed up on his account, or looked like an unmade bed at work. I was a supervisor, not a babysitter.

    Leave a comment:


  • Taktiq
    replied
    Originally posted by Bill Warnock
    Welcome to the forum. You lucked out as you say, now the hard part is to stay on top of your game.
    You'll find out to your dismay there are LEOs and private security men and women who run around like blind dogs in a meat factory with the mental capacity of an amoeba. You wonder if they were born that way or had to really work hard to get that way. Various levels of government experience the same malady.
    On balance; however, the majority in both spheres are hard working and dedicated to their craft.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Thanks. Trust me, I do try and stay on top as best I can. I've been out of this field since 2001 and am just getting back into it and intend on going back and taking some courses again (PPCT, interviewing techniques, etc) to brush up on things. I learned in the past that I'd be working with people I wouldn't trust to protect a 6-pack of beer much less back me up when the sh** hits the fan. Which consequently, due to that, is where my two cents on the security guard vs. security officer title comes in. While the state of Oklahoma gives me the title of "security guard", I feel how you carry out your job (just collecting a paycheck vs. being a professional) determines whether you're a rent-a-cop, a guard, or a security officer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by Taktiq
    Ahhh training something that within the security industry could always be improved across the board. Especially if it fulfilled the task of weeding out the incompetent morons before certifying them.

    Here in Oklahoma, all security/PI training is regulated by CLEET (Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training) who requires a minimum initial 40 hrs of instruction, followed by a state exam, at an acredited school (private owned, vo-tech or community college) and then an additional 12 hrs each year. The school I attended was privately owned by an Okla State Trooper and the staff were all former police officers and they all believed in getting very hands-on with the training, though they did utilize a few videos. The classes were fairly small which allowed for greater instructor/student interaction as well. Considering some of the officers I've worked with over time (incompetent morons) and the stuff the rest of you guys are saying, I think I lucked out.
    Welcome to the forum. You lucked out as you say, now the hard part is to stay on top of your game.
    You'll find out to your dismay there are LEOs and private security men and women who run around like blind dogs in a meat factory with the mental capacity of an amoeba. You wonder if they were born that way or had to really work hard to get that way. Various levels of government experience the same malady.
    On balance; however, the majority in both spheres are hard working and dedicated to their craft.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • Taktiq
    replied
    Ahhh training something that within the security industry could always be improved across the board. Especially if it fulfilled the task of weeding out the incompetent morons before certifying them.

    Here in Oklahoma, all security/PI training is regulated by CLEET (Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training) who requires a minimum initial 40 hrs of instruction, followed by a state exam, at an acredited school (private owned, vo-tech or community college) and then an additional 12 hrs each year. The school I attended was privately owned by an Okla State Trooper and the staff were all former police officers and they all believed in getting very hands-on with the training, though they did utilize a few videos. The classes were fairly small which allowed for greater instructor/student interaction as well. Considering some of the officers I've worked with over time (incompetent morons) and the stuff the rest of you guys are saying, I think I lucked out.

    Leave a comment:


  • davis002
    replied
    Originally posted by SecTrainer
    Probably not, IF they are truly employees at that point.

    However, if the training is held prior to actual employment (i.e., if the offer of employment is made conditional on passing the course/test/being licensed, then I imagine it's perfectly legal.
    This is traditionally how Securitas does it.

    Leave a comment:


  • SecTrainer
    replied
    Originally posted by LPCap
    I know of a national security organization that DOESN'T pay for state mandated training because they "offer the state class for free". Meaning, you don't get your hourly wage for the 16 hours you sit there, but they do cover the cost of the $90 class (which is what you would pay if you took it at a state site).

    I wonder if this is legal.
    Probably not, IF they are truly employees at that point.

    However, if the training is held prior to actual employment (i.e., if the offer of employment is made conditional on passing the course/test/being licensed, then I imagine it's perfectly legal.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    I think these companies buy a PSTN tape or two, then pop it in and forget it about. Years later, they're still watching the same PSTN tape.

    Leave a comment:


  • UtahProtectionForce
    replied
    Originally posted by GCMC Security
    Oh I'm not assuming that they haven't been updated! I'm just saying that the ones my company had were older than dirt!

    same the ones i saw were indeed PSTN, but were from aug 1991

    Leave a comment:


  • hrdickinson
    replied
    Originally posted by GCMC Security
    Oh I'm not assuming that they haven't been updated! I'm just saying that the ones my company had were older than dirt!
    I was told once that a company had the PSTN training tapes. Turns out, they only had a bootlegged copy of one and someone neglected to rewind it all the way so when you watched it, you first had to watch about 20 seconds of a tapped soap opera before the training started! They ultimately ended up subscribing to the series.

    Leave a comment:

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