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security training.. things that bug me....

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  • #16
    Originally posted by SecTrainer
    The use of video is no different, really, from any of the other training media, in that it has its place in the instructional mix, and also in the fact that it can easily be abused/misused.

    Complex situational scenarios, such as response to a major facility fire, that would require literally thousands of words to describe verbally or in print are highly amenable to video presentations, but the video itself can't "stand alone" as a training method. Such a video would usually require introductory discussion prior to the presentation of the video, and then you would need to conduct an analysis or critique of the situation by the class after viewing. Sometimes this analysis might even be followed by a second viewing (now that the students have a "new understanding" of the concepts being presented), and it could also be followed up by practical exercises/drills.

    So, I guess my comment would be that video is very valuable, in its place, but only when used properly in conjunction with other training techniques. All of this presumes, of course, that the video itself has good "production values". People these days are accustomed to high-quality video, and a "cheesy" production (i.e., badly scripted, an amateurish "cast", jerky transitions/fades, poor lighting/audio, bad camera work, extraneous special effects, etc.) can be sufficiently distracting to the viewer to destroy its instructional value. There's not much training happening when the audience is laughing at the production all the way through the video...and I have seen more than one such video.


    my points exactly many people fail to do this, they fail to hold per discussions, or after discussion, they just plop in a video and press play and walk out..., i have been in classes were after the so called instructor walked out the so called students have gone up to the machine and FF part of the video... because it was poor quailty and boring and monotone... etc.

    Both in construction trades were i have 1.5 years experience and in security were i have going on 4 years exp.
    Its not how we die that counts.....
    Its not how we lived that counts....
    all that matters is how we saved that one life that one time by being in the right place at the right time....

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    • #17
      Originally posted by UtahProtectionForce
      my points exactly many people fail to do this, they fail to hold per discussions, or after discussion, they just plop in a video and press play and walk out..., i have been in classes were after the so called instructor walked out the so called students have gone up to the machine and FF part of the video... because it was poor quailty and boring and monotone... etc.

      Both in construction trades were i have 1.5 years experience and in security were i have going on 4 years exp.
      This amounts to both misuse and abuse - misuse of the media, and abuse of the audience!
      Last edited by SecTrainer; 04-25-2007, 02:23 PM.
      "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

      "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

      "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

      "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

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      • #18
        The company I first worked for in MI had us watch PSTN videos. Good idea seeing MI requires no training, bad idea because I believe those tapes were filmed in the early 80s. Life changes, catch up with the times!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by GCMC Security
          The company I first worked for in MI had us watch PSTN videos. Good idea seeing MI requires no training, bad idea because I believe those tapes were filmed in the early 80s. Life changes, catch up with the times!
          Is that right? I haven't actually seen one personally in a long time. I just assumed they would revise them fairly regularly!!
          Richard Dickinson
          Dickinson Security Management Group, LLC
          DSMG Provides a Variety of Software Products and Consulting Services to the Contract Security Industry
          www.hrdickinson.com

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          • #20
            The "training" required for the CA Guard Card is a joke. They just want to make sure you have a pulse.

            Then you have to go to the company training which is always a bore, but at least you learn procedures and are getting paid.

            There's nothing that compares to ON THE JOB training from an experienced security guard.
            Police Officer

            Experience: Bouncer, EMT, Theme Park Security, Money Transport, Armed Guard

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            • #21
              Originally posted by hrdickinson
              Is that right? I haven't actually seen one personally in a long time. I just assumed they would revise them fairly regularly!!
              Oh I'm not assuming that they haven't been updated! I'm just saying that the ones my company had were older than dirt!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by GCMC Security
                Oh I'm not assuming that they haven't been updated! I'm just saying that the ones my company had were older than dirt!
                I was told once that a company had the PSTN training tapes. Turns out, they only had a bootlegged copy of one and someone neglected to rewind it all the way so when you watched it, you first had to watch about 20 seconds of a tapped soap opera before the training started! They ultimately ended up subscribing to the series.
                Richard Dickinson
                Dickinson Security Management Group, LLC
                DSMG Provides a Variety of Software Products and Consulting Services to the Contract Security Industry
                www.hrdickinson.com

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by GCMC Security
                  Oh I'm not assuming that they haven't been updated! I'm just saying that the ones my company had were older than dirt!

                  same the ones i saw were indeed PSTN, but were from aug 1991
                  Its not how we die that counts.....
                  Its not how we lived that counts....
                  all that matters is how we saved that one life that one time by being in the right place at the right time....

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I think these companies buy a PSTN tape or two, then pop it in and forget it about. Years later, they're still watching the same PSTN tape.
                    Some Kind of Commando Leader

                    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by LPCap
                      I know of a national security organization that DOESN'T pay for state mandated training because they "offer the state class for free". Meaning, you don't get your hourly wage for the 16 hours you sit there, but they do cover the cost of the $90 class (which is what you would pay if you took it at a state site).

                      I wonder if this is legal.
                      Probably not, IF they are truly employees at that point.

                      However, if the training is held prior to actual employment (i.e., if the offer of employment is made conditional on passing the course/test/being licensed, then I imagine it's perfectly legal.
                      "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                      "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                      "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                      "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by SecTrainer
                        Probably not, IF they are truly employees at that point.

                        However, if the training is held prior to actual employment (i.e., if the offer of employment is made conditional on passing the course/test/being licensed, then I imagine it's perfectly legal.
                        This is traditionally how Securitas does it.
                        "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

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                        • #27
                          Ahhh training something that within the security industry could always be improved across the board. Especially if it fulfilled the task of weeding out the incompetent morons before certifying them.

                          Here in Oklahoma, all security/PI training is regulated by CLEET (Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training) who requires a minimum initial 40 hrs of instruction, followed by a state exam, at an acredited school (private owned, vo-tech or community college) and then an additional 12 hrs each year. The school I attended was privately owned by an Okla State Trooper and the staff were all former police officers and they all believed in getting very hands-on with the training, though they did utilize a few videos. The classes were fairly small which allowed for greater instructor/student interaction as well. Considering some of the officers I've worked with over time (incompetent morons) and the stuff the rest of you guys are saying, I think I lucked out.
                          ‎"If you can't tolerate humor directed at you, you do not deserve to be taken seriously"

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Taktiq
                            Ahhh training something that within the security industry could always be improved across the board. Especially if it fulfilled the task of weeding out the incompetent morons before certifying them.

                            Here in Oklahoma, all security/PI training is regulated by CLEET (Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training) who requires a minimum initial 40 hrs of instruction, followed by a state exam, at an acredited school (private owned, vo-tech or community college) and then an additional 12 hrs each year. The school I attended was privately owned by an Okla State Trooper and the staff were all former police officers and they all believed in getting very hands-on with the training, though they did utilize a few videos. The classes were fairly small which allowed for greater instructor/student interaction as well. Considering some of the officers I've worked with over time (incompetent morons) and the stuff the rest of you guys are saying, I think I lucked out.
                            Welcome to the forum. You lucked out as you say, now the hard part is to stay on top of your game.
                            You'll find out to your dismay there are LEOs and private security men and women who run around like blind dogs in a meat factory with the mental capacity of an amoeba. You wonder if they were born that way or had to really work hard to get that way. Various levels of government experience the same malady.
                            On balance; however, the majority in both spheres are hard working and dedicated to their craft.
                            Enjoy the day,
                            Bill

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Bill Warnock
                              Welcome to the forum. You lucked out as you say, now the hard part is to stay on top of your game.
                              You'll find out to your dismay there are LEOs and private security men and women who run around like blind dogs in a meat factory with the mental capacity of an amoeba. You wonder if they were born that way or had to really work hard to get that way. Various levels of government experience the same malady.
                              On balance; however, the majority in both spheres are hard working and dedicated to their craft.
                              Enjoy the day,
                              Bill

                              Thanks. Trust me, I do try and stay on top as best I can. I've been out of this field since 2001 and am just getting back into it and intend on going back and taking some courses again (PPCT, interviewing techniques, etc) to brush up on things. I learned in the past that I'd be working with people I wouldn't trust to protect a 6-pack of beer much less back me up when the sh** hits the fan. Which consequently, due to that, is where my two cents on the security guard vs. security officer title comes in. While the state of Oklahoma gives me the title of "security guard", I feel how you carry out your job (just collecting a paycheck vs. being a professional) determines whether you're a rent-a-cop, a guard, or a security officer.
                              ‎"If you can't tolerate humor directed at you, you do not deserve to be taken seriously"

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                              • #30
                                At that one ill fated company I worked for, I proposed and outlined a 20 hour basic training course for all personnel; not a drill and instill "boot camp", but just a very full course of all things every security officer should know. Would have included movies and videos, as well as speeches, reading, and hands on work.

                                I might as well have talked to a rock. Money, money, money!!!! Oh, they can have a Lear jet, own big cars, big houses, and so on, but can't pay more than minimum wage and can't better the quality of their service? I told them to quit griping to me whenever some moron guard messed up on his account, or looked like an unmade bed at work. I was a supervisor, not a babysitter.
                                Never make a drummer mad; we beat things for a living!

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